Are you happy you have been heard by MOE...
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concern2:
Does this mean that the son of a parent with a Singapore PR status, even if he is living in other countries (e.g. US), has to come back at the age of 16 to register for NS?[/quote]The policy covers male children with dependent PR status (i.e. sponsored under their parent(s) PR) regardless of where they are living.
From http://www.contactsingapore.sg/students/live/residency_and_citizenship/ and http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=151.nansk:
NS can never be \"voluntary\".
[quote]Under the Enlistment Act, all male Singapore Citizens and PRs are required to register for National Service (NS) at age 16½....
...This requirement applies also to male children who are granted PR status under their parents’ sponsorship. -
concern2:
if the son of the SGP PR is also a PR, this PR son (born in SGP) must come back to SGP to serve NS regardless where he stays. By law. No excuse
Does this mean that the son of a parent with a Singapore PR status, even if he is living in other countries (e.g. US), has to come back at the age of 16 to register for NS? -
nansk:
The policy covers male children with dependent PR status (i.e. sponsored under their parent(s) PR) regardless of where they are living.
So means provided they (the male children) live in Singapore under their parent's sponsorship?
So the parent could, essentially, end the sponsorship before the child turns 16, perhaps, send overseas to study, then, if the child wishes to, come back to Singapore as professional to get a different PR status for himself?
Makes me wonder again the percentage of the children under PR status who are actually in NS vs citizens. Please understand that I am not discrediting PRs who are serving NS. Just want to clarify some doubts in my mind. -
Quote:
A more sensitive issue, however, is the perceived difference between citizens and permanent residents (PRs) when it comes to NS.
On the face of it, not much separates citizens and PRs when it comes to NS. It is mandatory for citizens and second-generation PRs to serve full-time national service for about two years from age 18. (First-generation PRs are 'administratively exempted').
NS-liable PRs are second-generation PRs. If they fail to register or enlist, they are deemed NS defaulters like any other citizen who defaults on NS. If convicted, they face a jail term of up to three years and/or a fine of up to $10,000.
But some PRs choose to renounce their PR status rather than do NS. Those who do so without serving NS face 'adverse consequences', says Mindef.
It is this escape hatch of being able to renounce one's PR status that is a cause of some resentment among locals, says Dr Leong Chan-Hoong, an IPS senior research fellow who spearheaded the think-tank's survey.
So the term 'adverse consequences' needs clarification and assurance that it is a sufficient deterrent.
Last November, Defence Minister Ng Eng Hen said that about a third of male foreigners who became PRs under the sponsorship of their parents renounced their PR status prior to serving NS.
These PRs - some 4,200 people - were warned about the consequences of their action at the point of renouncing their PR status. 'Their failure to serve NS will be taken into account when they subsequently apply to study or work in Singapore,' said Dr Ng.
It is generally understood that 'adverse consequences' refer to the difficulty associated with getting one's PR status back or obtaining a work visa to work in Singapore.
But Mindef has not explicitly spelt out what the 'adverse consequences' are. For instance, will a former PR who renounced his PR status to avoid NS but is highly skilled, still be able to obtain an Employment Pass? Or is there a blanket ban on such people getting a work visa in Singapore?
Writing to the press in December, Mr Sreedharan Sechachalam said he knew of renouncers who got into the National University of Singapore's 'highly competitive medical school to which, every year, some straight-As Singaporean students fail to gain admission'. He added that some renouncers were even admitted to speciality training programmes sought after by many Singaporeans and non-Singaporeans.
Mindef replied to Mr Sechachalam's letter, without addressing the specific cases but repeating the same premises regarding renouncers: they will face 'adverse consequences' and their failure to serve NS would be taken into account when they subsequently apply to work or study here.
To alleviate some of the resentment Singaporeans feel over this issue, two suggestions have surfaced. First, a security bond should be considered......
A second suggestion is that NS-liable PRs be subject to the same rules as citizens who renounce their citizenship - that is, they cannot renounce their residency until they have served NS.
The two measures are reasonable, given that NS-liable PRs have, like citizens, enjoyed the benefits of living in Singapore.
National University of Singapore sociologist Tan Ern Ser supports both ideas. The issue is as much about integration as fairness, he says, adding: 'Citizens want to be fairly treated. If young PRs have enjoyed the key privileges accorded to citizens, Singaporeans expect them to share in the responsibilities of citizenship as well.'
Deputy Prime Minister Teo Chee Hean told Parliament in 2006 that NS-liable PRs are 'like Singaporeans in many ways' as they had studied alongside their Singaporean counterparts and benefited from living in Singapore.
It is true the two measures mooted will discourage some potential PRs from rooting themselves firmly here. If so, their fledging roots never went very deep in the first place. More pertinently, the measures will go some way towards alleviating some of the unhappiness about PRs and NS.
In his 2006 Parliament speech, DPM Teo stressed two enduring principles about NS: It is universal, meaning all young and fit Singaporean males will have to serve NS; and it is equitable, meaning everyone will be treated equally. If NS is a fellowship forged among a band of brothers from a shared crucible, these two hallowed principles should apply to both citizens and NS-liable PRs.
The Straits Times
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The red highlighted part was the loophole on how second generation PRs got away with NS and 1/3 of them did so. The highlighted in orange, not sure if it is put in place yet as I cannot confirm the date of this article from ST. -
concern2:
dependent not same as sponsorshipnansk:
The policy covers male children with dependent PR status (i.e. sponsored under their parent(s) PR) regardless of where they are living.
So means provided they (the male children) live in Singapore under their parent's sponsorship?
So the parent could, essentially, end the sponsorship before the child turns 16, perhaps, send overseas to study, then, if the child wishes to, come back to Singapore as professional to get a different PR status for himself?
Makes me wonder again the percentage of the children with dependent PR status who are actually in NS.
the son is dependent on the dad for economic reason, livelihood, food and shelter, love and care etc = dependent
no way to cut this type of \"sponsorship\" even if they live in separate country
therefore before the son becomes independent financially, enlisted into NS liao. no way to siam one. any one siam is classified as NS defaulter, just like citizen
if the son leaves before 16 and comes back later to apply PR, no way it will be approved, and before that, police at ICA check point will catch him as defaulter. he would have received notice of enlistment long before that -
verykiasu2010:
I just read they do it by renouncing PR before enlistment, but I am not sure if this loophole has been patched though.concern2:
dependent not same as sponsorship
the son is dependent on the dad for economic reason, livelihood, food and shelter, love and care etc = dependent
no way to cut this type of \"sponsorship\" even if they live in separate country
therefore before the son becomes independent financially, enlisted into NS liao. no way to siam one. any one siam is classified as NS defaulter, just like citizen
if the son leaves before 16 and comes back later to apply PR, no way it will be approved, and before that, police at ICA check point will catch him as defaulter. he would have received notice of enlistment long before that -
ksi:
Ksi, :thankyou:Quote:
A more sensitive issue, however, is the perceived difference between citizens and permanent residents (PRs) when it comes to NS....
..
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The red highlighted part was the loophole on how second generation PRs got away with NS and 1/3 of them did so. The highlighted in orange, not sure if it is put in place yet as I cannot confirm the date of this article from ST.
So the 2 links that was provided isn't reflecting the latest considerations yet, I suppose. -
ksi:
I just read they do it by renouncing PR before enlistment, but I am not sure if this loophole has been patched though.[/quote]actually there are also citizens defaulter as well - skip town before enlistment and never step foot into SG soil ever sinceverykiasu2010:
[quote=\"concern2\"]
dependent not same as sponsorship
the son is dependent on the dad for economic reason, livelihood, food and shelter, love and care etc = dependent
no way to cut this type of \"sponsorship\" even if they live in separate country
therefore before the son becomes independent financially, enlisted into NS liao. no way to siam one. any one siam is classified as NS defaulter, just like citizen
if the son leaves before 16 and comes back later to apply PR, no way it will be approved, and before that, police at ICA check point will catch him as defaulter. he would have received notice of enlistment long before that -
That means citizen must die die serve NS, cannot denounce their citizenship before NS. What about those who are only born here but never live in Singapore since birth, is it rational for them to come back here just for NS?
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verykiasu2010:
You mean he would be like an exile, can never return home or face prosecution? Is it worth the while?
actually there are also citizens defaulter as well - skip town before enlistment and never step foot into SG soil ever since
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