City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[Nebbermind]

phtthp:

heard some churches very strict & particular about choice of bible used.


they use one type of bible only - ie. King James version (KJV), not any other. eg: NIV (New International version). To them, they regard KJV to be the original authentic bible. They trust only KJV, not NIV, nor any other translated bible.

Think u r referring to the Bible Presbyterian, or, well, that's the only one I'm aware of.

[Dreamaurora]

Happy Mama:

My first time watching CHC's online broadcast church service today and I saw this lady mentioning in her testimonial about Sun Ho's China Wine MTV and how Sun has changed the lady's life and how grateful she is to Sun.


Here's the MTV. Just wondering how this MTV applies to the religion. :? Oops! Please don't flame me hor. I'm just curious, as a non-Christian. :siam:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twxf2LraoEE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Happy Mama. Sorry to trouble you. Do you mind explaining about this lady's testimony so people here have a better idea of how the China Wine MTV links to a life changing experience? I did not see the online service and would like a clearer context of the testimony.

[Dreamaurora]

Below is an article that discuss traditional and mega churches. Very well written and researched. I recommend everyone reading it.


Reproduced from this link

http://newasiarepublic.com/?p=39521

The City Harvest Church (CHC) saga has thrown up a number of issues for public discussion. As matters for civic debate, the notion of corporate governance, the ambit of charity-religious hybrids, and the cult of the personality will be juicy fodder for deliberation. However, for those of us who have an academic or deeper spiritual interest in Christianity, the saga has offered the opportunity to contextualise the so-called “prosperity gospels” and the “cultural mandate” with our hyper-capitalist middle class society.

Although strongly associated with independent Pentecostal churches, especially megachurches, the prosperity gospels and cultural mandate were not always expressed with such conviction by CHC. After Kong Hee left the Anglican fold back in the late 1980s, he and his small group of followers shared premises with Augustine Tan’s Hephzibah Christian Fellowship before moving on to the World Trade Centre. Back then, in the early 1990s, CHC was known as Ecclesiastes with a strong emphasis on youth and readying the church for the second coming of Christ.

In researching the local Protestant community, my colleague and I found that megachurch respondents saw a strong relationship between market logic and spirituality. In other words, highly quantifiable criteria such as numerical and financial growth were more likely to be seen by megachurch respondents as signs of divine blessing and personal faithfulness. (Note: However, it is unclear as to whether megachurch respondents see the lack of money or wealth as signs of a person’s lack of faithfulness or absence of God’s blessings.)

Conversely, we found that Anglicans and Methodists were less likely to see a relationship between market logic and spiritual matters. In sum, megachurch-goers demonstrated less compartmentalisation between the material and spiritual, while Anglicans and Methodists were more likely to compartmentalise these two. We found that this compartmentalising was practiced selectively depending on the issues in question.

Perhaps more interesting for us was the dismissive, even sneering, attitude of some mainline church leaders we spoke to whenever the topic of prosperity gospels was brought up. It was not uncommon to see Methodist or Anglican leaders, in private of course, roll their eyes or let fly a rude quip at the expense of megachurch-goers. Returning to our data on the socio-economic profiles of our respondents, we found that Methodists and Anglicans were more likely to have inherited their middle class status, suggesting greater cultural and symbolic capital at their disposal, while megachurch-goers, though highly educated and well represented in professional occupations, were more likely to have come from working or lower-middle class backgrounds. This suggests that megachurch-goers were new entrants into the Singapore middle class.

We realised that the phenomenal growth of the megachurch in Singapore was partly down to its ability to express Christianity in the language of market logic, thus appealing to the economic aspirations and consumer habits of many young upwardly mobile Singaporeans. In sociological terms, the mantra of the megachurch shares “elective affinity” with the aspirations of young upwardly mobile Singaporeans. The dismissive attitude of mainline denominations towards the megachurch and the so-called prosperity gospels may find some explanation in the tension that arises from the on-going social distinction between the established and emerging middle class.

Another key feature of the megachurch and CHC in particular is the notion of cultural mandate. Most churches throughout history have sought to go out into the ‘real world’ to spread the gospel. The cultural mandate carries this further by calling followers to ride the crest of contemporary culture in order to shape it according to God’s will. It is less of the old adage of “being in this world but not of it”, and more “being at the top of this world in order to change it”. This is nicely reconciled by the “seeker church” mentality of megachurches which strives to reduce the proximity between the marketplace and the church.

Followers are encouraged to do business and to be part of the world. It is when they are recognised players in business (or pop culture in Sun Ho’s case) that they can pivot on their positions of power to make a difference. That’s the theory anyway. No wonder then that megachurches around the world from Hillsong Church in Australia and Lakewood Church in Texas, to CHC and New Creation in Singapore spend so much on branding and packaging. The entry of the church into the market as a corporation is the next logical step. The rise of what some have called “pastorpreneurs” is entirely in keeping with the charisma and cult of the CEO.

The CHC saga is important in so many ways. A sober discussion of how the local Protestant middle class community is fragmented is needed. Hopefully, such a discussion will throw some light on the tensions between mainline denominations and the megachurches, and more broadly, on the deeper divisions within our heterogeneous middle class.

“Different under God: A Survey of Church-going Protestants in Singapore” by Terence Chong and Hui Yew-Foong will be published soon.

[phankao]

phtthp:

Happy Mama:

My first time watching CHC's online broadcast church service today and I saw this lady mentioning in her testimonial about Sun Ho's China Wine MTV and how Sun has changed the lady's life and how grateful she is to Sun.


Here's the MTV. Just wondering how this MTV applies to the religion. :?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twxf2LraoEE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

todate, how many people in US / SG got converted, as a result of her \"China Wine, Mr Bill\" production ? any way to find out ?

Wah, how to make direct correlation, ah?

[phankao]

phtthp:

todate, how many people in US / SG got converted,

By the way, you all might find this write up interesting. I read this earlier today.

http://edunloaded.com/everyday-life/city-harvest-allegations/

[buds]

Phankao, he’s one of our KiasuParents!

[jasmineong]

phankao:

phtthp:

todate, how many people in US / SG got converted,

By the way, you all might find this write up interesting. I read this earlier today.

http://edunloaded.com/everyday-life/city-harvest-allegations/

Thanks for the article. :goodpost:

[Happy Mama]

Dreamaurora:

Happy Mama. Sorry to trouble you. Do you mind explaining about this lady's testimony so people here have a better idea of how the China Wine MTV links to a life changing experience? I did not see the online service and would like a clearer context of the testimony.

Hi Dreamaurora, I couldn't recall her exact words,but if I recall correctly, it was something like she used to be a rebellious teenager until she met Sun, who was there to give a listening ear. That girl loves dancing and it was Sun who gave her the opportunity to dance in her China Wine MTV and she's exceptionally grateful to her as it is every dancer's dream to be able to dance in a Hollywood MTV. She also mentioned that she had the opportunity to see how passionate and hardworking Sun was about her dance steps when she was with her in USA. Lastly she ended saying she will always be there to serve Sun.

Hope I got the info right. Those who saw the online service, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Happy Mama]

phtthp:

todate, how many people in US / SG got converted, as a result of her \"China Wine, Mr Bill\" production ? any way to find out ?

Hi phtthp, sorry I don't have this info...

[Dreamaurora]

Happy Mama:

Dreamaurora:

Happy Mama. Sorry to trouble you. Do you mind explaining about this lady's testimony so people here have a better idea of how the China Wine MTV links to a life changing experience? I did not see the online service and would like a clearer context of the testimony.

Hi Dreamaurora, I couldn't recall her exact words,but if I recall correctly, it was something like she used to be a rebellious teenager until she met Sun, who was there to give a listening ear. That girl loves dancing and it was Sun who gave her the opportunity to dance in her China Wine MTV and she's exceptionally grateful to her as it is every dancer's dream to be able to dance in a Hollywood MTV. She also mentioned that she had the opportunity to see how passionate and hardworking Sun was about her dance steps when she was with her in USA. Lastly she ended saying she will always be there to serve Sun.

Hope I got the info right. Those who saw the online service, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks Happy Mama. One more question. Did this girl eventually accept Christ and a serving Christian now? Or was she already a Christian before participating in China Wine MTV?

Personally, I think this testimony is irrelevant (no offense to the girl and to CHC people). Because in this case, she actually benefited directly from the China Wine, as in benefited financially from having participated in the MTV (most likely). So it's kind of like getting your employees to sing praises about their employers. What I would be interested is if there is a documented testimony that a non believer, upon seeing China Wine MTV in the media, decided to find out more about Sun Ho, and by extension finding out more Christianity and accepting Christ in the end.