City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[concern2]

patagonia:

I hope they hear for themselves his sermon in Presence Conference 2012 in Sydney. Here's an audio recording an US critic made (about 30mins long, move the clip forward to start from 39:30)
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/04/kong-hees-fleecing-of-the-masses.html

Wow, thanks for sharing this, patagonia.

I am thinking, that most believer would think, \"If this guy is a Pastor, surely he must know the Bible better than I do, surely he must be clearer than I am, surely he must be wiser than I am, surely he must be speaking the truth!\"

What causes one to perceive his speech as 'WOW!', and another in perceiving it as 'WHAT?!\" ? It certainly takes some prior understanding and learning of the bible doesn't it? Yes, and it certainly explains why parents should be concerned.

[Dreamaurora]

blessed777:

AC_Power:

If Mr Poon has moved on, so should you. However, if Mr Poon decided to take a civil suit against CHC for damages (his reputation and the 5 figure sums on the apologies), I would think that you should then come forward.
.

IMHO It is wiser as a Christian that Mr. Poon not to decide to take civil suit against CHC, although CHC was wrong to threaten him with lawsuit (if this is true).
1 Corinthians 6:1-7.
... is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers ! The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?...

But if an innocent brother or sister is wrongly accused in court, i believe we need to come foward as witness if we are in a such position that able to disprove the false allegation. my two cents

You are absolutely true. Thanks for quoting that verse. Lawsuits are discouraged among Christians and disputes should be settled with mediation as much as possible.

[chenwj]

DesertWind:

This thing about tithing through credit card. The bible said to give one-tithe from the first of all your produce. Seems a bit contradictory to be tithing through credit card ie. giving from what you don't have yet..... :?

wifey say can earn credit card points and rebates.

[kiddo]

Dream


Thumbssss Up for you !!!
John 10 The Shepherd is sacrificial -the underlying theme

[chenwj]

If one day someone ask your DD or DS


\"If your father and Pst Kong Hee fell into the water and you could only save one, who would you save?\" and if your DD/DS replies \"Pst Kong Hee!\"................................. :scared: :scared:

[Dreamaurora]

buds:

Agree with both AC_Power and Lilac66.. I too have learnt so much from this discussion. Your representation... in delivering your thoughts and calmingly explaining to all of us here, the religion you represent... is very enlightening (to me personally). :hugs: Definitely clearer as well than the stuff I've heard from other followers. However, i believe all religions teach ppl to do good. Thanks for this..

Thanks, buds. This is a volatile time for the Protestant community in Singapore. Many Christians I spoke to within these few days were very reluctant to discuss about this case, some did not even agree that CHC is even part of our Protestant community here.

As we have seen, this case inadvertently brought the spotlight on Christianity. Non believers are asking about the faith, wanting to find out more or clarifying the teachings or theology. Opinions are flying left and right, whether good or bad. So as a Christian, being indifferent to all of this will not do service to my God. The least I could do here is to provide my viewpoints and my experience so non believers here could have inputs on this case from a Christian's point of view. And also to answer questions about the faith whenever possible. Like it or not, unless NCCS officialy declares that CHC is expelled from the membership, CHC's people are still technically our fellow Christian brothers and sisters. And as someone who has personally spent close to 5 years there, I want to see the church come out of this with minimal damage as possible.

[Dreamaurora]

kwcllf:

LOLMum:

Don't think channel u 11pm mentioned anything about Chc tonite...old news soon.

It was reported that during congregation over the weekend, KH maintained his \"integrity\". Just wonder why he did not use the word \"innocence\"? Seems like something is amiss from the choice of word. :?

You are thinking too much lar. If he used the word \"innocence\", he would be instantly charged with subjudice.

[empressplace]

patagonia:

I hope they hear for themselves his sermon in Presence Conference 2012 in Sydney. Here's an audio recording an US critic made (about 30mins long, move the clip forward to start from 39:30)

http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/04/kong-hees-fleecing-of-the-masses.html

Oh this is pretty hilarious!

I find it unbelievable that he is suggesting that people give generously (all if possible) even if they were in debt as he was. The people who followed this will sink deeper into debt. This goes against any basic principle of financial discipline.

[Dreamaurora]

kiddo:

Dream


Thumbssss Up for you !!!
John 10 The Shepherd is sacrificial -the underlying theme

Thanks. John 10 is one of my favourite books in the Bible, afterall all Christians are in essence God's shepherds, so it is a good book to read to remind us how to live our lives as Christians. Looking at the state of Christian world now, sometimes I wonder if a lot of preachers and pastors have forgotten about Jesus' exhortations in this book.

[kctan]

it's very enlightening to hear the many views about City Harvest case here.


I think that Kong Hee and gang should get a chance to defend against the allegations against them, from a purely legal perspective.

I do hear many members of CHC defending KH passionately. I have no doubt that they do good for some people. But the questions remains ... is what they are doing in line with what the bible says?

Most would agree that CHC's sermons are based on a type of 'prosperity teachings'. Is prosperity preaching really in line with the teachings of the bible? The only way we can know is to examine the scriptures in the bible.

First I think we need to know what exactly is a prosperity preacher ....

The following text are taken from http://www.heprayed.com/PracticalDevotions/41

\" A prosperity preacher is one who claims to be a Christian, but whose teaching focuses on man’s happiness and prosperity in this life. He is a humanist. It’s amazing… the only time in scripture where Jesus got furious was when men used God’s temple to make money (Luke 19:45-46). These were money-grubbers setting up shop in the Lord’s house of prayer. \"

It happened in Jesus’ day and it’s happening in our day. This is exactly what hundreds and thousands of prosperity preachers are doing today. These men and women that stand up in their golden pulpits in designer clothing begging for money and making promises of healing and monetary return in the name of Christ should cause a holy anger in God’s children!

The immature believer will often find it hard to distinguish these false teachers. We must warn against these mammon worshippers that call themselves Christians as a doctor warns against a deadly poison advertised as a medicine. This false gospel is spreading like wildfire.\"

I find it absolutely incredulous that KH actually had a sermon which talked about Jesus being rich which is a direct contradict to the bible.

\" Prosperity preachers tend to live lavish lifestyles with fancy cars, large houses, expensive clothes. Jesus did not do this. He did not even carry a penny on him (Matt 22:19). He had no place to live. “Jesus replied, ‘Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.’” (Luke 9:58). \"

Some of the other behavior from the church which contradicts the bible are:

Prosperity preachers rarely preach against sin.
This is because they are concerned less about the soul than they are the body. They are concerned about this life more than they are eternity. Jesus preached against sin harder than anybody I’ve ever heard. When a man tells you to rather cut out your eye than sin, you can be sure that He’s serious about it (Matt 18:9). Listen very carefully and take note of how often a pastor talks about sin and speaks against it. This will tell you much about his own walk with the Lord.

There is ZERO fear of God in their preaching.
For all the gentle things that Jesus said to one person, He had a rebuke for another. He once called a Roman a man of great faith, and then called the Pharisees brood of vipers! The first is a picture of the Lord’s love, meekness and gentleness. How about the latter? Would you call Him “gentle Jesus” when He spoke to the Pharisees, calling them hypocrites, sons of Satan?! Our Lord was doing as the scripture commands : “And of some have compassion, making a difference: And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” (Jude 1:22-23). Prosperity preachers only follow the \"compassion\" part of that passage, for they are too fearful to rebuke. They believe in the love of God, but not the fear of God.

I think in the case of CHC and KH, there are two things involved. One- whether they have broken any laws of the country. Two- if what KH is preaching is truly what is from the bible or it's only being twisted to the church's own gain?

For question 1, we are yet to know the answer even though evidences so far are heavily stacked against KH and gang. For question 2, we will all have our opinions because it's something religious. BUT it is important to understand the BIBLE because if we truly trust that it is the word of GOD, then isn't it important to know the bible well enough to know if the pastor is preaching something against the word?

The members of CHC who are vehemently defending their leader has to ask this question ultimately ... is what KH and other pastors from CHC really preaching the WORD from the bible or are they, like most prosperity preachers merely using parts of the bible to further their gain?

Just my two cents worth,
KC