GCE debate rages as study shows UK kid's maths woes
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Maybe the parents who complained about high stds of PSLE are not parents who have children capable of winning international competition?
Does UK have the equilavent of PSLE? If yes, is the std perceived to be as low? -
SAHM_TAN:
Standards are standards. You don't lower standards for airline pilots just because you can't get enough of them to pass, you don't lower standards for surgeons because you want to improve statistics or because more people want to become surgeons.Maybe the parents who complained about high stds of PSLE are not parents who have children capable of winning international competition?
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From my recollection, there’s have not been any drastIc changes in statistics for PSLE right? As in how many percentage pass to the respective streams and As and so on? I remembered reading somewhere that even during the yrs when the papers were perceived to be difficult, there was no drastic change too.
I’m just responding to the comment why parents complain about difficulty of PSLE papers but no complaints abt kids winning competition. I’m suggesting it might be different groups of parents. -
I think they have the 11+exams in UK for entry into their secondary schools. The popular public schools may also hold interviews and auditions.
But more importantly, I remember hearing somewhere that their employers are complaining that their graduates lack basic academic skills to tackle the jobs. Here, it seems that our employes have a different grouse. -
Michael Gove's plan to scrap GCSEs is ludicrous, say teaching union leaders
Unions say return to exams similar to O-levels would prove divisive and do little to address social mobility
Hélène Mulholland and Nick Watt
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 21 June 2012 10.36 BST
Teaching union leaders have expressed disbelief at plans by Michael Gove to scrap GCSE exams in England in favour of a traditional model styled on the old O-level, describing it as a \"ludicrous\" return to a two-tier qualifications system.
Documents leaked to the Daily Mail on Wednesday reveal a plan to scrap GCSEs in English, maths, physics and chemistry from 2014, paving the way for more traditional O-level style exams the following year as the government accelerates its schools reforms.
The education secretary has already scrapped the modular element of GCSEs and his education white paper last November signalled a major reform of the exams introduced by the Conservatives a quarter of a century ago.
But the decision to scrap GCSEs altogether and to revive O-levels, though possibly not the actual name, will be seen as one of the government's boldest and most controversial reforms.
Teaching unions said the move would prove divisive for pupils and do little to address social mobility. Under the old system, pupils judged more able would be assigned to sit O-levels (GCE), while the bulk sat CSEs – an exam seen as an inferior qualification.
Mary Bousted, leader of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers, described the move as the education secretary's most \"ludicrous\" idea to date and warned that it signified a return to \"a rosy path that never existed\".
\"The idea that you would see a return to an exam that was designed for 20% of the population and expect England to compete with high performing countries like Finland, where they test far less … The aim should be to get as many people as possible to the best standard they can achieve and you do not do that by dividing everyone as sheep and goats at 14.\"
Bousted said it would damage both the confidence and the commitment of the remaining 80% of pupils who may very well feel \"they are not going to get anything out of this\".
Chris Keates, general secretary of the NASUWT, accused Gove of \"breathtaking\" arrogance and of creating a two-tier education system.
\"Thousands of young people will be taking their GCSEs today and at a time when they need a confidence boost they are being told by the secretary of state that the examinations they are taking are worthless,\" said Keates.
\"There is no evidence that the current system is broken, that examinations are getting easier or that our qualifications are trailing behind the best in the world.\"
The union leader also questioned the decision to introduce the proposed changes in 2014 – just before the 2015 general election.
\"Could it be that the secretary of state is not confident that his education reforms will raise standards and is, therefore, seeking to cover his tracks by removing anything that can provide a year-on-year comparator?\"
Brian Lightman, general secretary of the Association of School and College Leaders, criticised the leaking of announcements that he said should be presented as \"properly detailed and published proposals\".
\"Without seeing the DfE [Department for Education] proposals it is difficult to judge the impact. It seems that reintroducing a two-tier system which was scrapped years ago because it ended up failing large numbers of young people would be a hugely backward step. O-levels were introduced for a small proportion of the population and CSEs were seen as an inferior qualification for the less able. I can't see how telling young people at age 14 that they aren't smart enough to sit a higher-level GCSE will help to address social mobility and raising aspirations. However, we need to see the actual proposals from the DfE before we can accurately predict what the consequences, intended and unintended, will be.\"
Gove's plan was signalled in an internal education department document leaked to the Daily Mail. The document says: \"The Department for Education expects that existing GCSEs will disappear … Those starting GCSEs in 2013 are the last pupils who will have to do them.\"
The education department refused to comment on the leaked documents. But it is understood that there are two broad elements to the reforms: the national curriculum, which sets out what secondary school pupils should be taught, will be scrapped; and a more rigorous exam system will be introduced.
There will also be one exam board for each subject. This means that schools will not be able to sign up for exam boards seen as easier.
The changes mean that, by 2016, GCSEs will no longer count in league tables. The requirement for five good GCSEs graded A* to C will be scrapped, removing any incentive to study for the exams.
The changes will be introduced in stages. The new exams will be sat in the core subjects of English, maths and the three science subjects from 2016. Gove sketched out the following timetable for the next few academic years:
• The autumn of 2013 will be the last year that pupils will start studying for GCSEs in the core subjects.
• The autumn of 2014 will be the first year that pupils start studying for the new exams in the core subjects.
• The summer of 2015 will be the last time pupils sit GCSEs in the core subjects.
• The summer of 2016 will be the first time pupils sit the new exams.
Stephen Twigg, the shadow education secretary, said: \"Michael Gove must explain his changes to parents and pupils. Will going back to O-levels for some and CSEs for the rest really improve standards for all? Labour wants to see a robust, rigorous and broad curriculum and exam system that is trusted by parents, pupils and employers. We will set a series of tests to measure these changes.
\"With no secondary national curriculum how will he ensure a rigorous approach to learning in all schools? When the Tories abolished O-levels and introduced GCSEs in the 1980s they said standards would rise. Now they say they've fallen.\" -
SAHM_TAN:
... I'm just responding to the comment why parents complain about difficulty of PSLE papers but no complaints abt kids winning competition. I'm suggesting it might be different groups of parents.
Most 1st time parents don't complain about PSLE standards until we are faced with the harsh reality of trying to get our kids across the hurdle. That's when we become myopic and go bald with hair tearing at the impossible questions expected of our children. That's the natural response. I do my own share of swearing and cursing
But the point about setting standards high is that it brings up the entire level as a whole, and not just the talented few that could actually solve the problem and show the rest the way. In shows like Ninja Warrior, it is often after someone has actually succeeded at clearing the obstacles that the success rate of the remaining competitors increases. This is the halo effect, an externality, that successful people bring to people around them.
Is it stressful? Of course it is! It's competition, after all, like everything else. The less stressful option is to do what UK did to placate the masses, increase the passing rate, and try to make everyone special. Today's news reveals the long-term consequences of such policies.
I singled out this news because here is a unique opportunity for us to learn from some other country who went through education reforms to make things softer. I am no fan of the PSLE system, but until we can find a better alternative, it is still a critical means of setting standards for our children. -
England's brightest pupils 'let down by failing policy'. the guardian.co.uk
Pupils at England's secondary schools are just half as likely as their peers overseas to achieve top level maths scores, with a new report blaming failing education policy and programmes
England's schools are failing their most able teenagers, leaving them trailing far behind their peers in other developed countries.
Pupils at England's secondary schools are just half as likely to score highly on international maths tests than those in the average developed country, according to a report from the Sutton Trust.
The study shows that the majority of England's pupils achieving the highest marks are from independent and grammar schools, with \"almost no pupils\" achieving top levels from non-selective state schools.
Just 1.7% of England's pupils achieved the top proficiency level in maths (level 6), compared to an average of 3.1% for countries within the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OCED).
Pupils are assigned a level based on their score on Programme for International Student Asessment (PISA) tests, needing 707.93 or above to qualify for level 6.
Pupils at England's grammar schools outscored their state-educated peers in both maths and reading - on average - by 546 to 490 and 553 to 492 respectively.
Across the UK as a whole, 1.8% of all pupils achieved a level 6 in maths, with this figure falling to just 1% for reading skills.
England's failings are thrown into sharper relief when the scores of non-OECD regions are also included. 26.6% of their peers in Shanghai municipality achieved a level 6, 15.6% in Singapore and 11.3% in Chinese Taipei.
In reading tests, New Zealand's pupils scored highest, with 2.9% achieving level 6, followed by Singapore with 2.6%.
Scores in science tests - not included in the study but also recorded by PISA - showed a similar pattern, with 1.9% of England's teenagers attaining a level 6, against 4.6% for Singapore and 3.9% for Shanghai. -
ChiefKiasu:
:goodpost: :goodpost:SAHM_TAN:
... I'm just responding to the comment why parents complain about difficulty of PSLE papers but no complaints abt kids winning competition. I'm suggesting it might be different groups of parents.
Most 1st time parents don't complain about PSLE standards until we are faced with the harsh reality of trying to get our kids across the hurdle. That's when we become myopic and go bald with hair tearing at the impossible questions expected of our children. That's the natural response. I do my own share of swearing and cursing
But the point about setting standards high is that it brings up the entire level as a whole, and not just the talented few that could actually solve the problem and show the rest the way. In shows like Ninja Warrior, it is often after someone has actually succeeded at clearing the obstacles that the success rate of the remaining competitors increases. This is the halo effect, an externality, that successful people bring to people around them.
Is it stressful? Of course it is! It's competition, after all, like everything else. The less stressful option is to do what UK did to placate the masses, increase the passing rate, and try to make everyone special. Today's news reveals the long-term consequences of such policies. -
I am now starting to believe that standards are not so low in the UK as I had thought. We pretty much do the same topics as MOE by the end of P5, plus more topics that you may do in P6 and S1. It just appears that in our Secondary Schools that they do not progress from this, but that they start all over again. For example, angles, mean, mode and median are tacked in P4. I tackled them in Senior, which equates to P6 and S1. However, for English we are weak in Grammar. You also have to remember we are a very liberal country with poor governance and too much thought for not pressurising children. In short we have fallen from our hitherto lofty standards. Our syllabus outside of Eng, maths and Science is outstanding. English, Maths and Science are being addressed. So it all bodes well, here.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2162369/Michael-Gove-plans-scrap-dumbed-GCSEs-bring-O-Levels.html
Guardian has other reports on this topic :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/06/education-pisa-maths-reading-grammar-schools
We may rank second in the list but at what price ? It will be good if our academic excellence is achieved within school hours and not after..... by the countless tuitions our kids are going through from core 4 subjects tuitions to Maths olympiad , creative writing , GEP preparation to IP / o levels tuition.
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