City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[Lyddon]

zakashi:

Dreamaurora:

Since we are discussing charismatic evangelical theology here too, what do parents think of these below videos of a session conducted by Becky Fisher of Jesus Camp fame?


[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0ZxynnckZE][/youtube]
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmsLGXPf35w][/youtube]

Would you send your kids for these kind of sess ions?

Would you highlight what is wrong with these video?

I would NOT like to earnestly volunteer to be the \"dead person\".
I would NOT encourage my beloved family to gleefully volunteer to be dead too.
Less enviable health conditions like decapitated limbs (or head), multiple stab wounds, full body 3rd degree burns and being run over/dragged over several km by a 18 wheeler ... is not preferred as well.

... unless its to act in the Avengers Movie & be paid like Robert D.Junior to be (almost) dead in an oh-so-cool battle-worn ironman suit.

[Daddy D]

The 2nd vid... Saw a little.... Why must cry one? Kinda traumatizing....

:yikes:

[blessed777]

Zakashi : Would you highlight what is wrong with these video?


Dreamaurora :
I cannot say whether it’s right or wrong as different Christians may have very strong opinion for or against this type of ‘Jesus Camp’ children service. Someone who is brought up in traditional Christian service with traditional Sunday service may find this kind of children service overly dramatic and sensational. But someone from charimastic or evangelical background may think it’s perfectly fine. Personally I’ve been serving Sunday School in both types of environment (traditional and evangelical). I prefer the more traditional one as I feel children should be taught actual life lessons from the Bible with the reasonings explained instead of ‘indoctrinating’ what is right or wrong by virtue of eliciting emotions from them.


Dreamaurora, U already hv the answer to yr own questions.

[kwcllf]

blessed777:

Zakashi : Would you highlight what is wrong with these video?


Dreamaurora :
I cannot say whether it's right or wrong as different Christians may have very strong opinion for or against this type of 'Jesus Camp' children service. Someone who is brought up in traditional Christian service with traditional Sunday service may find this kind of children service overly dramatic and sensational. But someone from charimastic or evangelical background may think it's perfectly fine. Personally I've been serving Sunday School in both types of environment (traditional and evangelical). I prefer the more traditional one as I feel children should be taught actual life lessons from the Bible with the reasonings explained instead of 'indoctrinating' what is right or wrong by virtue of eliciting emotions from them.


Dreamaurora, U already hv the answer to yr own questions.

I feel the play-acting in the first video is too dramatic for the kids. Why must they be exposed to such indoctrination, which seems like a children's version of a \"voodoo\" movie.

[Lyddon]

Daddy

The 2nd vid... Saw a little.... Why must cry one? Kinda traumatizing....

:yikes:

I personally think the session / camp in the 2 videos are too much for kids.
The crying and ultra emo expressions... what's that all about?

I wonder if my child/children will feel that strongly for me/wife over the many sacrifices we have made for them.

[blessed777]

Dreamaurora:

I cannot say whether it's right or wrong as different Christians may have very strong opinion for or against this type of 'Jesus Camp' children service. Someone who is brought up in traditional Christian service with traditional Sunday service may find this kind of children service overly dramatic and sensational. But someone from charimastic or evangelical background may think it's perfectly fine. Personally I've been serving Sunday School in both types of environment (traditional and evangelical). I prefer the more traditional one as I feel children should be taught actual life lessons from the Bible with the reasonings explained instead of 'indoctrinating' what is right or wrong by virtue of eliciting emotions from them.

Im wondering whether u r asking parents or Christian parents abt the videos ? As this is not a Christian forum, it may confuse the non Christian parents who dont understand Christian Charismatic doctrine. This is a sensitive issue n i believe u dont hv the intention of turning this thread into a witch hunting ground on Charismatic Christian.
As a Christian Charismatic Im perfectly fine with such service (just like u mentioned in yr post). You feel that children hv to be taught actual life lessons frm the Bible, to the Charismatic Christian praying (including praying for miracles) is actual life lessons frm the Bible n we do explain it to our kids the reasons n the supporting scriptures. I was born n raised in a traditional Protestant family, n become Charismatic after experiencing miracles just like the early Christians in the Bible. As someone with both traditional n evangelical background, you might be aware of the difference between them, traditional protestant believe in cessationism while charismatic believe that miracles, signs and wonders, and other supernatural occurrences are expected to be present in the lives of believers. I have not taught my kid on hw to raise the dead yet as teaching this require big faith n i dont hv such faith yet, but I do teach my dd to pray for healing, miracles, sign n wonders. When i was sick last month i asked my dd to lay hand n pray for me as I laid in bed in pain, n I got healed completely soon after, when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now. As for the crying part, I do cry sometimes when i worship alone or during a church sercice when the presence of God come down upon us, do children experiencing the same thing ? Yes they do, when my dd cried fr the first time at sunday school svc I asked her to tell me why did she cry n she told me the same experience as I hv, when God presence come down some children would speak in tongue some cry because they feel the love of God upon them, n my dd said that she can feel the anointing even until several hours after the service over, I never taught her to cry or whatsoever n none of her sunday school teacher told her to do so. You do understand that Charismatic emphasize on personal relationship with God n its understandable that some ppl sometimes cry also remembering His goodness n mercy upon their life, I dont mind sending my kid to such service coz I hv faith in it and if you dont, you dont have to. In this case, Christian hv to agree to disagree.

[verykiasu2010]

blessed777:

Dreamaurora:

I cannot say whether it's right or wrong as different Christians may have very strong opinion for or against this type of 'Jesus Camp' children service. Someone who is brought up in traditional Christian service with traditional Sunday service may find this kind of children service overly dramatic and sensational. But someone from charimastic or evangelical background may think it's perfectly fine. Personally I've been serving Sunday School in both types of environment (traditional and evangelical). I prefer the more traditional one as I feel children should be taught actual life lessons from the Bible with the reasonings explained instead of 'indoctrinating' what is right or wrong by virtue of eliciting emotions from them.

Im wondering whether u r asking parents or Christian parents abt the videos ? As this is not a Christian forum, it may confuse the non Christian parents who dont understand Christian Charismatic doctrine. This is a sensitive issue n i believe u dont hv the intention of turning this thread into a witch hunting ground on Charismatic Christian.
As a Christian Charismatic Im perfectly fine with such service (just like u mentioned in yr post). You feel that children hv to be taught actual life lessons frm the Bible, to the Charismatic Christian praying (including praying for miracles) is actual life lessons frm the Bible n we do explain it to our kids the reasons n the supporting scriptures. I was born n raised in a traditional Protestant family, n become Charismatic after experiencing miracles just like the early Christians in the Bible. As someone with both traditional n evangelical background, you might be aware of the difference between them, traditional protestant believe in cessationism while charismatic believe that miracles, signs and wonders, and other supernatural occurrences are expected to be present in the lives of believers. I have not taught my kid on hw to raise the dead yet as teaching this require big faith n i dont hv such faith yet, but I do teach my dd to pray for healing, miracles, sign n wonders. When i was sick last month i asked my dd to lay hand n pray for me as I laid in bed in pain, n I got healed completely soon after, when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now. As for the crying part, I do cry sometimes when i worship alone or during a church sercice when the presence of God come down upon us, do children experiencing the same thing ? Yes they do, when my dd cried fr the first time at sunday school svc I asked her to tell me why did she cry n she told me the same experience as I hv, when God presence come down some children would speak in tongue some cry because they feel the love of God upon them, n my dd said that she can feel the anointing even until several hours after the service over, I never taught her to cry or whatsoever n none of her sunday school teacher told her to do so. You do understand that Charismatic emphasize on personal relationship with God n its understandable that some ppl sometimes cry also remembering His goodness n mercy upon their life, I dont mind sending my kid to such service coz I hv faith in it and if you dont, you dont have to. In this case, Christian hv to agree to disagree.

many miracles do happen among the 'underground' churches in China, especially rural area

[Nebbermind]

blessed777:

Im wondering whether u r asking parents or Christian parents abt the videos ? As this is not a Christian forum, u may confuse the non Christian parents who dont understand Christian Charismatic doctrine. This is a sensitive issue n i believe u dont hv the intention of turning this thread into a witch hunting ground on Charismatic Christian.

I'm not a 'charismatic christian' but I certainly believe this is not the right forum to discuss differences in beliefs.

If one really have issues with the practices of another group of believers, then go to the right authority and register your grievances. Showing only a small part of a story and and trying to garner opinions from believers and non-believers will certainly create alot of misunderstandings. And we should not use this forum, intentionally or otherwise, to stir up sentiments against any groups.

And as Christians, I believe we agree to more things than we disagree, be it Protestants, RC or the different denominations...why not just coexist without hurting each other?

[Dreamaurora]

Nebbermind:

blessed777:

Im wondering whether u r asking parents or Christian parents abt the videos ? As this is not a Christian forum, u may confuse the non Christian parents who dont understand Christian Charismatic doctrine. This is a sensitive issue n i believe u dont hv the intention of turning this thread into a witch hunting ground on Charismatic Christian.

I'm not a 'charismatic christian' but I certainly believe this is not the right forum to discuss differences in beliefs.

If one really have issues with the practices of another group of believers, then go to the right authority and register your grievances. Showing only a small part of a story and and trying to garner opinions from believers and non-believers will certainly create alot of misunderstandings. And we should not use this forum, intentionally or otherwise, to stir up sentiments against any groups.

And as Christians, I believe we agree to more things than we disagree, be it Protestants, RC or the different denominations...why not just coexist without hurting each other?

The problem is there is no even a right authority to register our grievances. For example prosperity teaching is taught in many megachurches around the world, yet no one really has the power to stop them. People outside these megachurches believe prosperity teaching is erroneous and ungodly, while people inside these megachurches will firmly believe otherwise. And both camps will of course will support their beliefs with detailed reasonings and bible verses.

I posted the videos on a neutral ground because I am curious what kind of reactions charismatic practices will elicit from other Christians and non-believers. Whether the response is negative or positive we can't compel people. If certain practices seem to elicit more negative reaction, then it can be a starting point of discussion if the said practices are appropriate. Rather than everybody starts getting defensive because of the assumption noone will fully understand the practices.

[WeiHan]

The "Jesus Camp" is a documentary film also featuring how Becky Fisher conducted her children brain washing in America.


It is simply wrong! To indoctrinate children at such young age.

At the back of her mind, she wants these children to grow up and take over the world as a christian theocracy. This certainly will run the world and these children into future trouble. it contradicts world peace, coexitence and celebration of diversity. the problem with these people is their extreme narrow world view and will certainly creates more trouble for the world if they grow in number. So, do you think it is good or bad. For those people who strongly support this kind of camp, they are already the problem and the root of future problem.