Asia spending billions on tutors: study
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limlim:
I see that you failed to see the key point in my post.
i think so too. and yes, no point ranting furtherverykiasu2010:
[quote=\"limlim\"]Anyway, you see no issue with excessive tuition and enrichment, so be it.
Ya, the MOE should sit back and relax. It's all the parent's fault. It is not caused by MOE so MOE is not obligated to fix it.
fine then..
No point for me to rant further.
I highlight it for you. But I doubt what I said in the up-sized highlighted part is totally true. But anyway, I leave it as it is .[/quote]if you doubt what you said, then why said it ? i can't see your point -
verykiasu2010:
Or maybe flying ants... got helicopter view. :rotflmao:
some of us are of bigger ant mah ...... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:ksi:
So each of us equipped with an ant's view -
ksi:
the some pain is painted as if the whole nation every one is in the same pain
This is exactly what I mean by empathy or the lack of. Based on the backgrounds of our ruling team, many of them are pretty blessed, at least blessed with academic talent to arrive at where they are today. However, what differentiates them would be their ability to empathise.Suz855:
:thankyou: limlim :salute:
Some parents are so blessed that they fail to see the pain of others .....
If I am not wrong, our poor SINGA who seems to be singing its own tune at every campaign is singing...\"Empathy\" this time.
what nonsense
not saying there is no pain
sweeping statements like teachers don't teach, ask students go for tuition.... are unnecessarily tarring the whole education service in one brush and then prescribing a blanket solutions...what audacity and presumptuousness
let the whining continues -
Busymom:
If the example cited by you is a true happening, yes, I agree that there is a potential conflict of interest. On the other hand, even if this teacher doesn't teach her students in an external tuition centre, as long as she is the exam paper setter, what is stopping her from giving extra hints to her own class students so that a majority of them will perform well vis-a-vis another class taught by another teacher (there must be KPI for teachers' performance at the end of the day like how many good passes in a class, no?)? So the way to solve this conflict of interest issue should not be that a teacher cannot moonlight as a tuition teacher. Rather, she should not be teaching her own students outside of school and getting paid for it. Agree?
Unfortunately still have to disagree on this one but it is ok if you cannot agree since we usually agree on most things.
To address the highlighted parts first, if anyone lodges a complaint, the teacher will definitely get into trouble in the school. This should deter him/her from malpractice. This is basic ethics for teachers within the school. The same ethics applied outside the school would be \"conflict of interest\". This is only one area, there could be more and Sun_2010 has mentioned about materials designed which should rightfully belong to the school. Also, how is MOE or school going to track if a teacher is teaching their own students or not? It is again an issue of span of control. In any case, this moonlight issue in the commercial world is clearly spelt out in the hiring contract for most large companies with protection over intellectual property rights and their customer base.
As you have said, livelihood is the reason why people moonlight. School teachers' special skill set is in teaching academic subjects and they get a premium for it. We can't impose upon the school teachers that they become waitresses or piano teachers or insurance agents just because of potential conflict of interest in the example that you have cited.
Erm..I am agreeing with you that MOST people moonlight for livelihood but there could be various other reasons. Sun_2010 has come up with a good idea on an alternative way teachers can make extra, her suggestion is a worthwhile read if a teacher wants to use their skills directly. Art, music, sports, drama, softskills like presentation are areas that are happening for children that could be explored. If a teacher is good enough, they can work with publishers or even MOE to write books. Even for subject matter, can always teach enrichment of the subject in a wider sense, for eg, science can cover the study of space and universe to generate interest in science for children not interested in science. Currently, it is a bit like plucking low hanging fruits. I am seeing the problems with moonlighting by teachers, but it does not mean I am 100% supporting the elimination of moonlighting for teachers, still in a discussion state in my mind now.
It's like I see a lot of Yamaha piano teachers teaching students outside of Yamaha, some are existing Yamaha students attending group lessons in Yamaha, some are not. It would be quite crazy to suggest that these teachers ought to be teaching something else other than piano if they wish to moonlight. These teachers will just leave Yamaha and be private teachers teaching 100% from home.
In this era, yes, demand overflow supply... In the next era, no...they have to listen to Yamaha's terms. Besides, music is not core , it is just popular, but not enough to create a nation-wide awakening.
As I said earlier, I do not see tuition centres as the competitor of MOE. They are complementary and therefore, conflict of interest issue can be managed for cases such as the one you have cited.
Agree they are not competitors. Tuition are however supplementary (continue to drill on the in-syllabus things because it may not be covered fully or a child may not be able to understand it fully) whereas enrichment centres are complementary (learn wider and more but not necessarily tested). Are we talking about tuition or enrichment, friend? :? For enrichment centres, if an existing Science teacher wants to teach topics outside school syllabus, there is no conflict of interest.
[Note: I am using supplementary in the same context as the health supplements we eat. We eat them because we NEED them but lack in it due to our unbalanced diet]Busymom:
That is why this phenomenon is not just the doing of MOE. I think we can all agree on that.ksi:
One thing I want to congratulate Singapore with this tuition nation phenomenon in a positive way is, I can say, \"We have arrived!!\"
Only world-class CITIES in Asia has this similar education syndrome, look around. We have indeed grown up from our kampong days! 
Yes!
I do not think that some forummers here lack empathy per se. It is perhaps the constant \"attacking\" by some on MOE and teachers over multiple threads in this forum over the last few months that caused some wanting to speak up and present an alternative view to balance things up a bit. Perhaps it has come across as being snobbish at times.
No offence to anyone. :xedfingers:
Hmm..I read it differently. I read that most people are asking MOE as the authority to look and understand this phenomenon. In fact, most tones are more on appealing to MOE to investigate and take some action. There may be a few who have started with strong tones but they simmer down along the way. It is true that there are some people ranting but after they calm down, their views are worth reading. People tend to rant under pressure...CA, SA, PSLE coming.... :nailbite: :nailbite:
As for teachers, I also do not feel that ALL teachers or schools have been criticised but in some unique experiences, their encounters with a specific teacher/school was highlighted and I believe this is where we need to empathise and perhaps query more to find out its validity. Now on the other balanced side, there have been people who shared the goodness of their teachers as well. I get a sense of all kinds of teachers.
To me, it is normal that everyday, everyone, has some good experiences and some bad experiences.
In any case, it is good for you to write your alternative views, continue to do so. :snuggles: -
3Boys:
This is certainly an excellent knee-jerk message to address kiasu parents and if you can successfully bring down the numbers for tuition, you are better than the CEO of Cathay leh!!! :rahrah: :rahrah: :rahrah:As I have said, if it pains parents so much to have their precious lose out to others, or labelled as foundation class students, then lets just please mash everyone into the same cohort and test simple, so everyone passes with 'A's and we can all hug trees and sing kumbaya. Parents not stressed, teachers not stressed, students not stressed, tuition industry collapses. Perfect.
It is absolutely fine with me, really.
Referring to buds post, we are barking up the wrong tree. There seems to be an opinion that we MUST optimise every child's education, bring him to he 'best of his abilities'
I don't subscribe to that at all. I don't optimise my sons education, I push them but I don't push them to 'the best of his abilities.' That's what's driving the tuition industry.
Plenty of time to catch up in higher education and workplace. Just look at Page 1 of the ST today, the present CEO of Cathay. He's about my age, I bet I outscored him by a mile in school, but he is far more successful now.
Why the worry? Why the fretting? I don't worry for my kids academic placement so much, I am far more concerned about their character development.
People are hung up about tuition because they think its a rat race they can't get out of. Apply it in small measures, by all means, but there comes a point where enough is enough, dial back and let your kids be, find their own level. He's God's gift, don't judge him by his scores, accept him for who he is.
To be candid, every parent(with the exception of you) will attempt to help their children to execute to the best of their abilities but not necessarily academics. Education is an all encompassing word beyond academics and I think you agree on that since your focus is character development. :hi5: :celebrate:
I am a firm believer that character development drives success for a child holistically. Unfortunately this is a tougher road to take as it needs a runway compared to throwing them into a tuition centre for a quick fix, to take off as a helicopter. -
Ksi : I read that most people are asking MOE as the authority to look and understand this phenomenon. In fact, most tones are more on appealing to MOE to investigate and take some action.
Also to let those who are affected or concerned with the current phenomenon know that there are people with the same views as them hoping the authority will study the phenomenon and make some corrections if necessary. We can't be the ones solving it as we are mere \"ants\", life is tough enough justifying our experiences. -
Interesting read :
Singaporean qualifications don’t mean a thing without experience
Singapore is obsessed with qualifications. Everyone is geared towards getting the best and most number of diplomas and degrees and MBA’s. I hate to tell you all but they mean absolutely nothing without experience.
I recently hired three people and during the recruitment process I was inundated with people who had loads of qualifications but no experience. They all went in the bin un-replied. If I had a dollar for every application I received that started “I have an MBA…” I would be able to afford a landed house!
What makes you think that because you have an MBA that you can do the job requiring specific and extensive marketing experience?
MBA’s mean nothing, absolutely zero. I don’t even care if you have a degree. If you the relevant experience, have demonstrated that you understand what we do and have actual experience in delivering for clients/brands in our line of work and present well in an interview that will get you the job.
If you have a million qualifications but no experience why do you expect to even get a reply to an advert which specifically says that you must have partnership marketing/loyalty marketing experience? Why would anyone even waste time on interviewing you when you haven’t even read the advert and expect a qualification to get you further than someone who has actually got relevant experience and worked hard?
Am I being too harsh? Clearly Singaporean qualifications are not worthless but a helluva lot of applications are when they are centered around qualifications and without related experience to the role that you’re actually applying for.
I am always shocked in Singapore at how many people have qualifications from overseas schools in the US, UK and Australia but where they have never actually visited. I recently attended a Newcastle Business School alumni event in Singapore and I was one of only 5 attendees who had actually been to Newcastle! Everyone else had completed the course remotely through a partner educational establishment in Singapore.
That is all great for the education organisations who reap the money without the hard costs of labour, venue, accommodation, materials etc and one on ones but how good are the qualifications if you haven’t experienced life outside of where you live? Is there also just the hint that you will get your degree no matter what because you’re paying top dollar for it?
Every parent in Singapore is obsessed with after school classes, weekend classes, extra classes with the ultimate one-upmanship of having their son/daughter gain higher grades and more qualifications than a neighbour but at what cost to a Singaporean’s creativity, independence and experience?
If all young Singaporean’s are geared up to do is pass exams then they are not experiencing life and learning in the real world. Then when it comes to applying for a job they wonder why the more travelled and experienced expats end up with the higher paying jobs and running the companies in their homeland.
It’s all about experience. If you haven’t got it you can’t learn it in school. Stop the obsession with qualifications and go out to the real world and get some experience. You will become a more rounded person and you will get the interview for that job you really want, the career you want and the life you want. The world is not an exam it’s a practical. Experience is everything.
Chris Reed, Regional Partnerships Director (Asia), Partnership Marketing
Singapore Business review 6 July 2012
:please: Can someone please tell the angmo not EVERY parent…………..but that is the impression we are giving others now and wonder if it is still not a concern. -
jtoh:
Or maybe flying ants... got helicopter view. :rotflmao:[/quote]Oh flying ants typically make nuptial flight. So only mating time they get helicopter view.....good point... :rotflmao:
some of us are of bigger ant mah ...... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:verykiasu2010:
[quote=\"ksi\"]
So each of us equipped with an ant's view
vks2010, bigger ants also still ant size la relative to the big issues....
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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
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ksi:
Is that not the root of the problem, instead of hammering on MOE? WHY must they at the best of their academic abilities? Its the kiasu attitude translating into anger against MOE when unreasonable demands are not met, and meanwhile I am painted as some unsympathetic oaf who 'has not experienced the pain' of other parents. I don't experience the pain because I choose not to experience the pain, not because my kids don't do the same exams or attend the same schools or face the same issues. I am utterly convinced, that if they are truly talented, it matters not ONE whit whether or not they are in the top class or middle class or bottom class, when they get up into the higher education levels, they will come through, and even more so in the workplace. I have seen it enough in the I've studied with, people who work for me, people whom I work for, people I work with, that there is little correlation between academic performance in schools and performance in the workplace. If they have no talent, no amount of temporary hot-housed academic success will compensate long term for a lack of ability. My children will find their own level, I have no interest in squeezing every ounce of optimal performance from them. Much rather work on things like integrity, work ethic, compassion. Those will be the differentiating traits for success. I am therefore sanguine. And I really wish other parents would be just as sanguine. I wish it because I would like other parents to feel unburdened, bent over double as it is by the weight of the bogeyman, which frankly maybe doesn't even exist. Free yourself of the angst and fear and anxiety and anger. And the tuition issue will magically evaporate. But there is no chance of convincing anyone, is there?
To be candid, every parent(with the exception of you) will attempt to help their children to execute to the best of their abilities but not necessarily academics.
In the meantime, who speaks up for the poor teachers and MOE staff, many who are dedicated and busting a gut?
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