Asia spending billions on tutors: study
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limlim:
no worry! not worked up at all
Why are you so worked up over a single posting by a newbie with maybe questionable remarks?verykiasu2010:
all these hearing from friends, always hearing from friends ...... ....... shadow boxing ?
I don't even get what she is trying to say actually.. Is she saying tuition is a problem or we should embrace tuition as a way of the education system and accept as it is?
just waiting for a good laugh, and I think you just quoted out of context
in any case never mind -
FQW:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Soli soli. In movies most of the baddies are guys one mah.autumnbronze:
Ooooooi bro FQW, KSP is a 'her' addoi
What an apt title for Chen!! Mother of Peace indeed :hi5:
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Chenonceau:
Hi Chen,
My 2 Cents on Contentment
As the people like Becontented (apologies... not directed at you... just can't resist a play on your nick) who MAY possibly want everyone to be contented, then seriously, I would be contented too if my daughter were a prefect and my son were in the best class. Indeed, Chenonceau is most contented with the MRT system and bus system because she doesn't take public transport AT ALL. Certainly, I could wish for better. Chenonceau is the name of a castle that I wish I owned and lived in. Nonetheless, I still am most contented with my housing because my public housing was great. Gee... I really don't understand why people complain so much about housing and transport.
In my opinion, whilst I may be contented with my housing/transport life... and I expect many would rejoice with me for my good fortune... I think it is somewhat not quite logical for me to expect others like Janet, who don't live my blessed life, to be quite as contented as me.
My experience in education has made me more tolerant of complaints by other Singaporeans who do have to brave the crowds in the MRT every day. I don't really know their pain, but I do now feel enough for them to refrain from judging or scorning them.
Limlim's issue is in coming across as tarring all with the same brush. He probably does it because he lacks subtlety (like most men
:siam: 
). I think he means well.
You sure you are not directing at me :evil: :evil:
Contented = virtue OR lazy, less ambitious, bo-chap. Different view.
Am not asking people to be contented and dun care, but to relook and adjust some of their expectations. But probably most would consider it as a 'downgrade' which is highly unacceptable.
Housing/transport - I am contented cos'
- I have a big enough HDB house with a room for my children (vs I cannot afford condo/private property)
- I have an old car that serves as a transportation means. Keep us dry when it rains, dun have to squeeze into MRT/bus during peak hours, can ferry my kids and elders around etc. I am thankful I dun have to go under the hot sun most of the time. BUT just because I dun take the public transport as often, it does not mean I do not believe that people's agony exist. It's painful tho to listen to people complaining about being unable to buy new/luxury car, ranting over 5-10 mins of waiting time for bus/MRT.
- I am happy that Govt issued out rebates to help citizens, more for lower income/smaller house. Not happy when people from high income/bigger units complain about the peanut$ and getting less than others.
Education
True, I am blessed that my kids are doing well....but does that mean that I have a perfectly blessed journey with zero pain...as implied by some? Not the same type of pain? Ohhhh, my pain not as painful as yours.....
Sometimes it's really the approach to life that we take. You might be a perfectionist and cannot accept a 2nd best.....I CAN. If one try their best, clear, pass, over. Move on.
DD is not a prefect and it does not matter. Top class - got the ability to squeeze in and stay there, good. If not, go 2nd class or 3rd.....I will accept, as long as the child tried their best. Com'on, there's lotsa smarter people around 天外有天， 一山还有一山高。 Are my kids affected emotionally that they are not as smart to some others? Nope. Both happy-go-lucky, kinda like me.
I may not experience/understand the full extent of the pain of those who fail. But yes, these kids need help. But those who are pushing beyond and not achieving the results they want, perhaps the expectation was simply unrealistic for the child? No matter what type of changes are made, will still be unhappy.
I know of 1 parent, she has always compared her gal with my DD....their gap widen over the years and she increased her gal's tuition to 7 per week (4 subjects). Her comparing and complaints are still on-going and these are the types of pain I will ignore. But then again, all of us will feel that our pain are geniune and should not be ignored/dismissed.
As mentioned before, if the particular sch sets exam that are too difficult, stay or get out -- it's a choice. Judging how parents still insist on entering those schools, pls then bear with the 'pain' please. No wonder these schools dun bother, cos' it is still in HIGH demand & parents are still flocking there. Let's admit this.......difficult exams = higher standard = will still do better vs. school setting easy paper. -
limlim:
Alright, banning tuition was a bad idea.. no issue with that.. sorry to suggest that. :imsorry:
errrrmmmm......you feel injustice that SMRT ban drinking and eating and thereby restrict your freedom to eat and drink.BeContented:
[quote=\"limlim\"]
if you want to talk about collateral damage.. innocent parties who are restricted because of some inconsiderate pple.. maybe we are on the same frequency..
I feel the injustice when I am not allowed to drink or eat carefully in the station that is stationary w/o any crowd and no one standing beside me. But you say (or suggest?), it is perfectly acceptable to restrict my freedom to eat and drink.
Are we on the same frequency?
and yet you have on many occasions suggested banning tuition and restrict others the freedom of engaging tuition for their kids.
Well, I for one....support SMRT ban on drinking and eating.
As for banning tuition, I will not die and I suppose my kids will still cope....maybe drop some marks/grades. But people whose cannot teach, children cannot cope, need more help eg. 1-1.....they will be the one who suffer the most at the end of this. Improving quality of teachers is a good idea, but that will take time to implement but eventually, there will still be those who still need more help than others.
Just talking about some regulation and control now..
What I said about the \"injustice\" is.. I can accept it.. Actually, I also support it. it has to be, for the greater good and comfort of all passengers.. even if I feel it is not fair to me.. but I SUPPORT it.
Can the others accept the same?[/quote]Glad you see it
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BeContented:
Thanks for sharing.Limlim,
since you believe in data analysis.....help me in this.
In an exam.....those who scored include some with tuition, some without. Some with tuition scored worse than those without. Some parents complaint badly amongst themselves that the T couldn't teach properly. Some of their kids did so so even with tuition.
After T resigned, some quit other tuition to join the external tuition class conducted by this ex-T.
Can we derive logical analysis from datapoints like this? Do enlighten me cos' I cannot figure out.
PS : This is real data hor.
Was the T doing external tuition class while still in the school? my impression is you sounded like the external tuition class is already in operation while the T is still teaching in the school. -
Busymom:
Limlim,
No.. I guess you misunderstood my comment..limlim:
[quote=\"Busymom\"]Chen, on your suggestions on how to help teachers, just want to tell you that when I commented that it is fine for materials from one school to be shared with another school, there are some who think that it is wrong. Materials developed by a school should remain within that school, otherwise it is a conflict of interest.
So you see, even if you think certain suggestions are fine and should work, there are always others who think otherwise. MOE's role is therefore not an easy one as in it can't please everyone.
I believe that is what some of us are trying to say.
Btw, I also owe you a PM. :imsorry: will get to it.
Free sharing is good.. no doubts about that.. If they put it up on the internet for free, it would be so noble. Or they could share it via free tuition lessons for needy families, it would be noble too.
It is the use of the materials for personal gain and profit that is not desirable.
I didn't say materials within a school shd remain within that school.
I say materials developed via public funding should not be use as instrument or tools for personal gain.
For public benefit, it is good and most welcomed.
I wasn't referring to you. I didn't misunderstand what you wrote. I did subsequently clarify this point in my reply to another forummer.[/quote]But this statement in itself is wrong. I doubt anyone even suggests that.
\" Materials developed by a school should remain within that school, otherwise it is a conflict of interest.\" -
limlim:
As far as I understand, that T went into external tuition after quitting and left the school.
Thanks for sharing.BeContented:
Limlim,
since you believe in data analysis.....help me in this.
In an exam.....those who scored include some with tuition, some without. Some with tuition scored worse than those without. Some parents complaint badly amongst themselves that the T couldn't teach properly. Some of their kids did so so even with tuition.
After T resigned, some quit other tuition to join the external tuition class conducted by this ex-T.
Can we derive logical analysis from datapoints like this? Do enlighten me cos' I cannot figure out.
PS : This is real data hor.
Was the T doing external tuition class while still in the school? my impression is you sounded like the external tuition class is already in operation while the T is still teaching in the school. -
Lilac66:
:hugs: hahaha! Troops, Ceasefire!!Just logged in and I see this..
World War III may be averted! :imcool:oxyleo:
Today, Sat 14 July, there is a general smell of reconciliation in the air in this thread, and I am witnessing a wonderful display of maturity from both sides (for the most part).
FQW:
Yes, most deserving, coz with my very earnest pleading \"pls understand our intentions are good\" , we were still not exactly making any headway. The crossfire continued. :scared:I thereby declare that Chen is the true Mother of Peace whose mere presence here in this thread stopped two marauding armies from swarming at each other.
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buds:
Musings is right. It is already happening and yes in many schools and in fact in many schools too! Government tops up Edusave and children can earn more in their accounts by doing well or being the most improved. Apart from that the children are also entitled to a bursary sum as well... if the family income is within a certain capped amount pre-determined.
I think this is already happening in many schools. Fees can be paid for by Edusave so effectively it is free for students.Musings:
[quote=\"BlurDad\"]
4. What are the possible / practical solutions? In my opinion:
a) MOE/Schools can leverage on selected external vendors (tuition centers) to complement their supplementary classes for weaker students by subsidizing heavily (according to kids' household income) the fees - this will help the teachers (who may be overly-stretched by schools' KPIs, multiple roles demanding of them) and assist those low income kids who genuinely need assistance.
Purely for discussion purposes only, and just sharing my observation. I do not know if it is many schools that have these external vendor programs, but will do my part to ask around more. In my son's school, an all-boys' mission school, there is no Heuristics program or Creative Writing program for P1 and P2 boys, unlike what I seem to have gathered from Musings and another forummer.. Not saying it's good or bad, cos like some one said, it is left to the discretion of the school. But this also points to a lack of uniformity in terms of what is offered in each school, purely from an academic perspective.BlurDad:
There has always been such help rendered to ALL students pertaining to this.I would think MOE/Schools could do more. As someone mentioned, the Edusave may be insufficient. Most schools offer “Enrichment” programs – not so much on “tuition” classes which is essentially to help the students grasp the concepts better (more time / at slower pace) or to make their learning experience more pleasant. However, I have the strange feeling that nowadays the students may need to be “enriched” in order to cope with the normal school assignments. The line between “Enrichment” and “Tuition” is blurred / confused ie. Top Schools papers are in great demand J.
It is termed as remedial. Students zoomed in to have underlying foundation issues and under-performing students ie. failing or almost failing (Band 3s and Band 4s) will receive 'invitation' to attend. However, better performing ones have been known to be welcomed into this extra after school lesson as well.
Yes, this is my observation also, in terms of Supp and Remedial classes offered by the teachers, but I'm just wondering if BlurDad was referring to tuition classes offered by external vendors and offered in the school premise. Pure guess, to be confirmed by BlurDad.BlurDad:
I'm not sure about older students but the school my daughters used to attend has graduating students who are currently undertaking poly diplomas or in jcs (etc) come back for mentorship programme to tutor weaker students some of whom have been identified to have learning difficulties. The approach is consistent and structured as these graduates apply the techniques using the lesson plans and methodologies created for this separate programme termed, Learning Support Programme. I was invited a few times to pilot the complete tried tested and proven Montessori Math programme in a few primary schools (by recommendation from fellow teacher-friends) for their teachers and former-student volunteers. Children identified to undergo this LSP are observed to be lacking in basic foundation to move forward with the ongoing curriculum and hence require to go back to have basic concepts embedded to move on with the rest of their peers. Once these students overcome that hurdle and are performing well, they are not required to come for the LSP sessions anymore. This bridges the gap some children may face... ie. for children who fall within the cracks of the system... perhaps due to parental ignorance of basic preps.. perhaps due to lack of funding for early childhood education.. perhaps the kindy or childcare didn't prepare them sufficiently or well yah.. perhaps the teachers in kindy didn't teach either even with a given curriculum. Many possibilities. Do not be surprised when i share that there are some of my own friends who do not believe in early childhood education at all.Getting some older students to assist the younger / weaker students is certainly a good idea. However, the effectiveness may be “limited” as a more structured/consistent approach provides a platform for us to leverage – basically to reach out more for those in need.
I share your observation here too. That schools are identifying weaker students and having older children help them, or parent volunteers help them. Not in an extensive manner though. In my son's school, it is through the Buddy Reading Program. Upper Pri boys, and a few PVs comes in every morning to read to the younger boys who need help. Not many of us though, like 2 grandparents and me, and 1 young grad on temp basis. I agree with BlurDad effectiveness is likely limited, but in the absence of anything else, we are filling the gap. There is improvement, but we also wonder if it could be better.
I however believe that that is where children really start. All that learning thru play is the real thing.. the real learning begins then.. the foundation of what they need is via those absorbent years. As i follow up with former students i have taught, there were many who were auto pilot ie. did not need tuition for the foundation was concrete and prepares them beyond primary school for the Montessori Education prepares a child for life. Failures included.
Early Childhood does seem to be the focus point now by MOE/MCYS. Hope it brings about good things for the children.BlurDad:
Once again, this is already in place. There are schools in Singapore that offer in-house after school care service. Parents can fetch by 7pm. Whatever the typical after-school care offers.. these service does the same and at an attractive price. A cousin paid only like $250-ish per month. Lunch, homework, revision, supervision, pick a sport plus indoor educational games. Her son has finished O levels now. So this has been in place for that long... perhaps even way earlier.In addition, I got an idea (not sure if it makes any sense) whereby the MOE/Schools might want to experiment it:-
a) We are quite used to the word “integrated” like “Integrated Resource”…etc – Can we consider integrated “After-care” service platform in our Schools?
b) This “After-care” service platform comprises “tuition” as one of its components but run by selected external vendors. They rent the a small office space from School and use the classrooms/facilities of the School to deliver lessons.
c) Just like the School canteen operators, they provide “affordable” and “nutritious” food to our children because the Rental is low (running cost).
d) Volunteers like older students, retired teachers, educated homemakers, part-timers… can leverage this “After-care” service platform to help the needy students.
Here I think you are referring more to the homework supervision and revision, food part when you say it is already happening? Just trying to clarify. I think Blur Dad is suggesting (a)-(b) too, which is tuition classes within the After school Care hours. What is currently provided is homework supervision and revision by the student themselves. the After care I/cs don't teach or tutor the children.
My humble sharings.[/quote]Thanks for sharing.
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BeContented:
As far as I understand, that T went into external tuition after quitting and left the school.[/quote]This is a single data point. You expect me to conclude or speculate?
Thanks for sharing.limlim:
[quote=\"BeContented\"]Limlim,
since you believe in data analysis.....help me in this.
In an exam.....those who scored include some with tuition, some without. Some with tuition scored worse than those without. Some parents complaint badly amongst themselves that the T couldn't teach properly. Some of their kids did so so even with tuition.
After T resigned, some quit other tuition to join the external tuition class conducted by this ex-T.
Can we derive logical analysis from datapoints like this? Do enlighten me cos' I cannot figure out.
PS : This is real data hor.
Was the T doing external tuition class while still in the school? my impression is you sounded like the external tuition class is already in operation while the T is still teaching in the school.
Statistics doesn't revolve around a single data point. Data have to be analysed Collectively. Trends/correlations/relationships can then be deduced.
And, in statistics, we have to factor in outliers too.
Anyway..
If, 100% of the data looks like this, it seems to suggest that tuition is not helping students to pull up grades, maybe the parents should reconsider the need for tuition.
Show the results to parents and tell them, tuition is not always good. See, this, is the data.
Doesn't this just debunk the myth that tuition is always good or useful..?
Didn't you just demonstrated the usefulness of the data?
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