GCE debate rages as study shows UK kid's maths woes
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Hi Oxyleo
Re the school in question, it’s the best school around and 45 mins by special bus - so I may still go for it.
RE the situation in the UK. I will prepare a more reasoned response for this, but a mature culture such as yours will always question the status quo. In the 60s, such questioing by liberals led to the so called "race to the bottom" and dumbing down of oour education syste. It is now facing a resurgence. Thanks to my foray into Singapore Education in 2006, I am slighly ahead of the game.
PS my DS1 had tutoring this morning. I dislike this; my wife has encouraged this as I shout and withdraw privileges (never, ever hit) if my DC do not perform their enrichment activities to a high standard. To cut a long story short the tutor uses books not as robust as the ones I bought from Singapore - so I feel frustrated. I may withdraw the tutor and carry on with my home enrichment. PPS, DS1 got his end of year report last week, and has achieved grades that he should expect in two years time.
I guess it is midnight over there. Have a good evening. -
optimistforum:
Thanks for sharing Optimistforum. yes you are right, it was midnight when you wrote last night. Haha. And at was still awake on another thread. Need to do less of this. One must have one's beauty sleep. Haha!Hi Oxyleo
Re the school in question, it's the best school around and 45 mins by special bus - so I may still go for it.
RE the situation in the UK. I will prepare a more reasoned response for this, but a mature culture such as yours will always question the status quo. In the 60s, such questioing by liberals led to the so called \"race to the bottom\" and dumbing down of oour education syste. It is now facing a resurgence. Thanks to my foray into Singapore Education in 2006, I am slighly ahead of the game.
PS my DS1 had tutoring this morning. I dislike this; my wife has encouraged this as I shout and withdraw privileges (never, ever hit) if my DC do not perform their enrichment activities to a high standard. To cut a long story short the tutor uses books not as robust as the ones I bought from Singapore - so I feel frustrated. I may withdraw the tutor and carry on with my home enrichment. PPS, DS1 got his end of year report last week, and has achieved grades that he should expect in two years time.
I guess it is midnight over there. Have a good evening.
Glad you have a head start, and are setting the bar for your child. Indeed it is not easy, and a parent is never really sure for certain if he is pushing too much or too little. It sounds like your DS1 is right on track and you are very pleased with his performance. It's good that you've narrowed down your frustration to the books used. By that you mean assessment books? Or textbooks? I presume assessment books are widely used too in the UK?
From your observation, do you think this change in education policy adopted by the Liberals led to a lack of morale in schools/teachers or complacency by students or both? I would imagine within the system one would still find highly motivated and driven individuals who would strive for good results regardless. Would these individuals by and large have gotten by then on their own with the help of external tuition in the UK? Is that common? Just absolutely curious. Please do not feel obligated to answer my incessant questions. Only those that you wish to.
Just to share a little on my side. My child is only 8. On the academic front, he currently has no tuition. Just me coaching and motivating him on the sidelines.
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Hi Oxylea
Do not worry about your questions, I find education fascinating. I will answer all. The point I made is that parents who have been through a rigorous educations (and remember it so) feel guilty when their off-spring go through the same. So in the UK, education was dumbed down in the 70s (slightly), 80s (greatly) and 90s onwards (completely dumbed-down). From 1945 to 1975 we had the best educational system in the world, but we also hada lot of functioanl illteracy and innumeracy for thsoe who did not sit O and A levels.
It galls me, as we had the best education system in the world. Our exam boards still provide high level O and A Levels to all countries except the UK.
Interestingly, my DS1 (who will be 9 tomorrow) is working on the vocab section of the EPH Book Complete Practice in Vocab, Grammar, Cloze and Comprehension. It is the first piece of written work I have given him since Easter (he has read since then). By the way he has just started the P5 book. Both my boys follow the MOE Primary Curricula at home. DS2 will be withdrawn from school homework in January.
I use old UK books (from the 50s) and the modern Singaporean assessment books. He find the latter challenging, however, I have yet to find any decent General Ability books from Singapore - those are what we need. He does not do school homework, as he has been using EPH P3 and P4 books all year. Re tutoring; with my Singapore books at my disposal, I do not need a tutor. The tutor is being used to hothouse my son to get into a local top private secondary school. My frustration is borne of the fact that my DS spends all evenings on the tutor's homework and does not have time for the important Singapore assessment book. I have come this far, that I find it difficult to let anyone else tutor him.
Anyway, do not dumb down your education - you will regret it in a generation's time. A civilised, increasingly affluent and socially responsible society tries to eschew discipline, and all other contemporary morays. We have lost these in the UK (spare the rod and spoil the child is so true of our culture) - this has led to poor governance and societal decline. The teachers we have are not that great, simply because they have no status and are paid comparatively less than other graduates (those who can't do, teach and those that can't teach, teach Phyisical Education - rings so true). Also, we have so many lone parent families, couples living together, marriage (between man/women) is falling and civil partnerships (marriage between man/man and woman/woman) is going up. They are now trying to force all religious institutions to allow gay marriage. Gay relationships are discussed in schools as now being acceptable (this is fine but heterosexual manrried parents cannot give a contrary view for fear of being labelled as bigots). The liberalisation of the 60s has steadily undermined and eroded family values. Quick book my DS a place in a MOE school for January 2013. :xedfingers: -
optimistforum:
Quick book my DS a place in a MOE school for January 2013. :xedfingers:
Err.. a place in UK MOE school or MOE school in Singapore? Please pardon me, we called MOE here in Singapore too, just to confirm that you are referring to UK government school. Do you mean that you need to quick book your DS2 (not DS1, I assumed he is getting ready for top secondary school) a place in a MOE school. Do you mean that your both sons are currently having home schooling (are you teaching him?) and not attending any public government school in UK? In order to get your DS1 into government (or MOE) secondary school in UK, you need to engage a tutor to prepare your DS1 for getting into secondary government (or MOE) school in UK but no tutor for your DS2. Right? In Singapore, it is mandatory to having primary education for children and we have a system for school registration (I better don't touch that topic) and the children do not need to take any entrance test. The parents will be charged for not sending their children for primary education. Of course, you can provide home schooling but you must be certified by MOE here in Singapore.
I wonder why you want to send your both sons to government school now but not providing home schooling since you have done a great job for your DS1 and he is almost ready for top secondary school?
Pardon my curiosity, why do you provide home schooling for your sons now and did not send them to government schools but why did you change your mind now and wanted to send them to MOE school now ? -
Hi Optimistforum,
How does meritocracy work in uk? I heard that the uk education is very elitist ?? When did you leave Singapore? -
Hi Melodies, cherryc
In answer to your questions.
I. No, I am not from Singapore, I am from the UK. I just steal from Singapore by using your books and getting my children to use them. I have spent thousnads of pounds over the last six years on this - but hey this is my only vice.
2. I do not home school. My children go to state primary. Instead of school homework (which I withdrawn DS1 from), they do Singapore Assessment books.
3. I do not provide home schooling as I need to work. I just do short challenging bursts of work from old UK books and current Singaporean books. DS1 got into trouble as he was always alte in doing school homework, as he was doing home enrichment instead.
4. By MOE, I mean Singapore. I envy your education system, even though I realise it is wholly reliant on out of school tutoring. But I do like the look of the school exam papers on MissKoh website - and we tend to practice the Nanyang school papers.
5. There is no meritocracy in UK schools. If you can afford it you send your DC to private schools. This is beyond the preserve of the middle class now. The best schools are private and the majority of candiadates to the best Universities originate from private schools. -
Hi,
After doing all the SIngapore assessment books, i guess your kids will excel in UK education system ??!! I really hope the day won’t come for us to declare that there is no meritocracy in our schools !
What do you think of the merits and weakness of our system ?
What is the main difference in teaching for the private schools vs public secondary school ? If a child is really smart but lack of resources, will he/she still be able to go Cambridge/Oxford in UK?? -
cherryc:
I do not think that my kids will excel as I have have to force, cajole and offer inducements to get them to work. They prefer the Wii and TV anytime.Hi,
After doing all the SIngapore assessment books, i guess your kids will excel in UK education system ??!! I really hope the day won't come for us to declare that there is no meritocracy in our schools !
What do you think of the merits and weakness of our system ?
What is the main difference in teaching for the private schools vs public secondary school ? If a child is really smart but lack of resources, will he/she still be able to go Cambridge/Oxford in UK??
Merits of your system, seems most people are culturally predisposed towards a quality education. Please never lose that. Drawbacks, a lot of your learning seems rote based, and your quality education system is down to out of hours tutoring. Why can't they teach in schools what the tutors teach after school!!!
My best friend's son is hopefully going to Oxford in the autumn. He needs two A* and one A. He gets 93 to 100% in his A Level assessments. You guessed right, it is not just an exam after two years but lots of mini assessments and resits. One person in 2010 resat 29 modules before he passed his A Level in Maths.
Only the posh kids get into Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, Durham and Warwick. Quite alot from top state secondaries get in too. -
Haha, from faraway you are seeing what many parents here refuse to see/acknowledge. Only time will tell where we are heading. I have friends sending their kids soon to Concord college to ensure their entry to Cambridge uni.
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optimistforum:
Optimistforum - thanks for sharing. Indeed you sound more like an Asianparent. Yes, you should come back to Singapore with your family then, to feel less out of place. Hahaha! Education is held in the highest regard here.Hi Oxylea
Do not worry about your questions, I find education fascinating. I will answer all. The point I made is that parents who have been through a rigorous educations (and remember it so) feel guilty when their off-spring go through the same. So in the UK, education was dumbed down in the 70s (slightly), 80s (greatly) and 90s onwards (completely dumbed-down). From 1945 to 1975 we had the best educational system in the world, but we also hada lot of functioanl illteracy and innumeracy for thsoe who did not sit O and A levels.
It galls me, as we had the best education system in the world. Our exam boards still provide high level O and A Levels to all countries except the UK.
Interestingly, my DS1 (who will be 9 tomorrow) is working on the vocab section of the EPH Book Complete Practice in Vocab, Grammar, Cloze and Comprehension. It is the first piece of written work I have given him since Easter (he has read since then). By the way he has just started the P5 book. Both my boys follow the MOE Primary Curricula at home. DS2 will be withdrawn from school homework in January.
I use old UK books (from the 50s) and the modern Singaporean assessment books. He find the latter challenging, however, I have yet to find any decent General Ability books from Singapore - those are what we need. He does not do school homework, as he has been using EPH P3 and P4 books all year. Re tutoring; with my Singapore books at my disposal, I do not need a tutor. The tutor is being used to hothouse my son to get into a local top private secondary school. My frustration is borne of the fact that my DS spends all evenings on the tutor's homework and does not have time for the important Singapore assessment book. I have come this far, that I find it difficult to let anyone else tutor him.
Anyway, do not dumb down your education - you will regret it in a generation's time. A civilised, increasingly affluent and socially responsible society tries to eschew discipline, and all other contemporary morays. We have lost these in the UK (spare the rod and spoil the child is so true of our culture) - this has led to poor governance and societal decline. The teachers we have are not that great, simply because they have no status and are paid comparatively less than other graduates (those who can't do, teach and those that can't teach, teach Phyisical Education - rings so true). Also, we have so many lone parent families, couples living together, marriage (between man/women) is falling and civil partnerships (marriage between man/man and woman/woman) is going up. They are now trying to force all religious institutions to allow gay marriage. Gay relationships are discussed in schools as now being acceptable (this is fine but heterosexual manrried parents cannot give a contrary view for fear of being labelled as bigots). The liberalisation of the 60s has steadily undermined and eroded family values. Quick book my DS a place in a MOE school for January 2013. :xedfingers:
I notice you mentioned your child is 9 tomorrow (Happy Birthday to him in advance!) and he is attempting P5 Assessment books? Wow! 9 year olds here are in P3 here, so that makes your child 2 years ahead academically?
congratulations! he must be very bright!
Thanks for sharing your observations about the UK. Indeed affluence has its ill effects in any society and where the gap is present between the haves and have-nots, the situation worsens.
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