What I hate about the current Singapore
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3Boys:
Let's start with your first statement. \"I hate to learn that it's the govenrment's discriminative policies that cause the present low birth rate.\" Conveniently ignoring the fact that Asian countries like with our type of demographic, and WITHOUT large foreign workforce presences, have exactly the same problem.[/quote]No. We have the worst number. It could easily be attributed to wrong policies. Without the bad policies, the problem could be present but with bad policies, it aggravates the problem. That was my impression.
Let's see who can take this part. Are there even any factual error used to derive his conclusion?WeiHan:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
And you swallow this lock stock and barrel? -
WeiHan:
If you look at 2005-2010 average data, we are there with Korea, Macau, Japan. To attribute low TFR solely to policies (much less, discriminatory one) is clearly fallacious.
No. We have the worst number. It could easily be attributed to wrong policies. Without the bad policies, the problem could be present but with bad policies, it aggravates the problem. That was my impression. -
3Boys:
1. Can you quote reference of data? the author claims that Singapore has the lowest TFR and he gave examples of similarly developed economies that have successfully reverse the low TFR trend.
If you look at 2005-2010 average data, we are there with Korea, Macau, Japan. To attribute low TFR solely to policies (much less, discriminatory one) is clearly fallacious.WeiHan:
No. We have the worst number. It could easily be attributed to wrong policies. Without the bad policies, the problem could be present but with bad policies, it aggravates the problem. That was my impression.
2. I don't think it is fallacious to call the government policies discriminatory. How do you expect the effectiveness of the policies to be if only top income earners benefit from having more children? Bottom line is that we can't see the sincerity in the government effort in encouraging higher fertility rate. So accusations in the article may hold water. -
Weihan
Home Ownership Plus Education (HOPE) Scheme
The HOPE scheme is for families with gross household income of $1,500 per month or less. How many kids do you reckon that a family with household income of $1,500 should have? -
Irrelevant:
Ironically, sometimes, the lower the income, the more the children. However, not sure about these days since people are more educated. Think the bench mark is 2?Weihan
Home Ownership Plus Education (HOPE) Scheme
The HOPE scheme is for families with gross household income of $1,500 per month or less. How many kids do you reckon that a family with household income of $1,500 should have? -
Irrelevant:
I don't get why are you showing me this?Weihan
Home Ownership Plus Education (HOPE) Scheme
The HOPE scheme is for families with gross household income of $1,500 per month or less. How many kids do you reckon that a family with household income of $1,500 should have?
isn't it even worse? Birth rate is dropping and they are only giving incentives to the highest income bracket to have more children. Not much incentives if you belong to the middle-low income group. And with this HOPE, they are blatantly discouraging more children from the low income group. I try not to call this discriminative social engineering but many will say that it is.
You can see that so little is done to promote local total fertility rate and they are pinning hope on quick solution like immigration. Giving expensive scholarships to foreigners...So what is this immigation about? Wouldn't they add to severity of greying population 20-30 years down the road instead of solving it even partially? -
What I hate most about current Singapore ?
seeing so many elderly citizens HAVING TO clean tables and collecting empty drink cans - yes, the same seniors who worked all their lives to bring up their children ( where are they and what are their priorities now ? ). Many elderly have to fend on their own and are struggling to make ends meet.
![](\"http://i45.tinypic.com/t85539.jpg\")
http://i45.tinypic.com/t85539.jpg\">
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBpFYx6Xt1A][/youtube]3Boys:
as much as I agree that social policies and high subsidies may lead to excess spending ( those in PIIGS and other western countries sometimes over-implement these policies to appease voters ? ), I definitely think we are UNDER subsidising the needy elderly.Four letter word for you.....P I G S.
You know what they are.....
Social policy and high subsidies, anyone?
Said it too many times, tried as much as I can on personal basis, but these sad cases are getting more and more. The younger generations are losing their compassion, their filial contributions and duties, etc ( from whatever reasons and causes - another story ), and the result is many more needy elderly.
and if I hear one more time that those elderly people who pick empty cans and clean tables are doing it to a) pass time and wanting to stay in workforce and b) they are actually very rich - ... I swear I will strangle the ignorant self-centred arschloch who say that :mad: -
The childless couple posted are really pitiful. At least they still have each other now. Those old people collecting soft drink cans and cardboards are really poor thing. Our aged population is really a problem now. They are not healthy and have to face rising medical costs.
Low birth rate is a big issue. Bringing in foreigners is not a solution. The couple may work and if they have a kid, their parents will be coming over to look after. The young couple faces high expenses here and have to support so many mouths. How would they dare to give birth to more? -
Strparent:
and what is your solution and action plan besides hating ?What I hate most about current Singapore ?
as much as I agree that social policies and high subsidies may lead to excess spending ( those in PIIGS and other western countries sometimes over-implement these policies to appease voters ? ), I definitely think we are UNDER subsidising the needy elderly.
seeing so many elderly citizens HAVING TO clean tables and collecting empty drink cans - yes, the same seniors who worked all their lives to bring up their children ( where are they and what are their priorities now ? ). Many elderly have to fend on their own and are struggling to make ends meet.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBpFYx6Xt1A][/youtube]3Boys:
Four letter word for you.....P I G S.
You know what they are.....
Social policy and high subsidies, anyone?
Said it too many times, tried as much as I can on personal basis, but these sad cases are getting more and more. The younger generations are losing their compassion, their filial contributions and duties, etc ( from whatever reasons and causes - another story ), and the result is many more needy elderly.
and if I hear one more time that those elderly people who pick empty cans and clean tables are doing it to a) pass time and wanting to stay in workforce and b) they are actually very rich - ... I swear I will strangle the ignorant self-centred arschloch who say that :mad: -
verykiasu2010:
and what is your solution and action plan besides hating ?![](\"http://i49.tinypic.com/dwxtaq.gif\")
just to make things clear - I dont hate Singapore, I love my country and I respect my elders and the pioneer citizens who worked hard to make it what it is today.
as the thread topic said, something that we hate ( dont like to see ? ) about ccurrent Singapore, well, this is the biggest grouse I have. The elderly are no longer respected, but instead they are 'ranked' or 'classed' by individuals now. Despite the Singapore Inc label, we are NOT a corporation, we are a country.
I had a heated discussion with an important overseas client recently about this topic, and he said the same thing as u. He then asked me why I bother about them, just earn yr keeps and take care of yourself. My answer to him - Why ? Because I am a Singapore citizen, and I care about my country and am concern what it is becoming.
what is my solution and action plans ??? again.......
I am not a policy maker, what can I do to change all these on a national level ?
But on a personal note, I used to talk to my MPs ( when I see them ) and I said the same thing to them. I DO not want anything for me, I want the government to look into the needy elderly's welfare.
I give, I help, I invite them to join me for meals at the hawker centres, I asked my DS to assist, help, carry, etc. We volunteer occasionally, my DS joined the Interact Club, so that he goes to the lonely elderly homes twice a month to help clean and tidy their 1-room or 2 rm flats. But there is only so much we can do by ourselves.
to borrow a phrase from Way2Go .... :idea:Way2GO:
Ha Ha! That's funny!3Boys:
[quote=\"Way2GO\"]It’s already happening if u look closely. Big fish eats small fishes, subtly.
To keep d peace, Big fish feeds small fishes scraps to keep them fr starving n keep them off d streets by putting them in small fish tanks.
Eyes r kept on d small fishes. Any outstanding small fish is co-opted to join d group of Big Fish.
If willing, d small fish becomes one of them, soon forgets he was once fr d multitude of small fishes feeding off algae to keep d tanks clean n pristine n plants flourishing for outside observers to exclaim, “wow! wat a nice environment to live in!”.
A small fish who joins d Big Fish is not going to speak out against itself. Smart move.
I hit ur funny bone or something closer to d heart?[/quote]
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