What I hate about the current Singapore

[concern2]

3Boys:

concern2:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]
and what is your solution and action plan besides hating ?

:spank: :nunchuk:

So what is the gar men's action plan after knowing all these problems? The old folks have already given you the answer in the video - WHY CAN'T WE USE OUR CPF????????????? Answer them this question please.

And after they use it up, how do they feed themselves?

Wait! I know the answer to that one too.........

Its all zheng hu's responsibility, Singaporeans just sit on the wayside and throw bricks.... brilliant![/quote]Did I say to cash it out? I know some have, but that isn't what I am saying. The old folks are asking, why can't I use my CPF to pay for my medical bills? Answer them this question. If they can't afford the medical bills, they'll die before they can afford to eat anymore!

[3Boys]

BeContented:

- Read that article and I like what he said.

One sentence in the article : \"He fear for Singaporeans today is that they clamour for their rights but disown their responsibilities.\"

PS : I too pity the 2 old folks and many others like them. I also wish more can be done for them......but definitely need to strike a balance else sure bound to be abused.

Entitlement culture. Actually worse, entitlement + blame displacement.

[3Boys]

concern2:

3Boys:

[quote=\"concern2\"]

:spank: :nunchuk:

So what is the gar men's action plan after knowing all these problems? The old folks have already given you the answer in the video - WHY CAN'T WE USE OUR CPF????????????? Answer them this question please.

And after they use it up, how do they feed themselves?

Wait! I know the answer to that one too.........

Its all zheng hu's responsibility, Singaporeans just sit on the wayside and throw bricks.... brilliant!

Did I say to cash it out? I know some have, but that isn't what I am saying. The old folks are asking, why can't I use my CPF to pay for my medical bills? Answer them this question. If they can't afford the medical bills, they'll die before they can afford to eat anymore![/quote]I think they will die of hunger before they will die of illness.....

You are making some really wild assumptions.

These people need assistance, but lets look at the proper mechanisms for rendering it, rather than caving in to short term, knee jerk reactions. There is no thought process to these proposals at all, apart from sitting in front of a laptop and bashing on the keyboard.

[concern2]

3Boys:

If you had responsibility for these old folks' welfare, what would you be doing? Would you just give a big lump sum of money, and say, here, do as you please? Or would you be a little more directed in how you provide the grant. Perhaps pay for their medications, provide foodstuffs, engage a taxi firm to give free transport instead? These old folk need help, but providing full fungibility of cash resource, in my view, is ineffective.

Guess each has to do their part, as and when one meets someone that needs the help. This requires the society to be more empathetic. THE SYSTEM itself needs to be more empathetic. IF at the point where needed most, and the relevant help that CPF is meant to be doing is not fulfilled, then CPF becomes INEFFECTIVE in helping them. You've mentioned a good point - engage a taxi to give free transport instead. But don't you think it sounds ridiculous? Just because CPF isn't effective, we start another service to patch it up?

[3Boys]

CPF precedes Medisave by a long time. The initial use of CPF was purely as a retirement fund, there was no intent for its use for other things. CPF has been liberalised significantly since its early days ALREADY, you can use if for housing, buys stocks, gold. It is fundamentally an Asset enhancement tool these days. My view is that CPF usage policy is ALREADY too liberal, many people don’t KNOW how to use it. But yet they clamour for more and more liberalisation.


Medisave was introduced later, to assist with health care costs. It was never ever meant to be comprehensive cover. Again, over the years, its use has been liberalised.

So before we throw everything out the window on account of an emotive video of old couple who are out of Medisave money, lets sit back and be a little thoughtful about the fundamental issue here.

That is, this couple is poor and without family support.

That is the issue, and lets deal with that, not smashing the CPF usage policy. And there MUST be restrictions to CPF usage, otherwise, it will be useless as a retirement fund. We don’t make policy by knee jerk (at least I hope you don’t expect the g’ment to)

[3Boys]

concern2:

Just because CPF isn't effective, we start another service to patch it up?

CPF is not a medical cover fund, therefore, it is ineffective as a medical cover fund, that is to be expected. I do think it is reasonable in its mission, which is to be a retirement fund.

Doesn't mean that we therefore make it one. There are other ways to deal with the issue.

[3Boys]

limlim:

Oppsgal:

Ask the higher income to donate part of their salary?

They REDUCEd the income tax contribution rate and impose/introduce GST..

You say leh?

Right, so there is class warfare you say.

Tell me, what's the VAT rate in Norway, Finland and Denmark, the paragons of class equality, relative to top income tax rate?

[concern2]

3Boys:

CPF precedes Medisave by a long time. The initial use of CPF was purely as a retirement fund, there was no intent for its use for other things. CPF has been liberalised significantly since its early days ALREADY, you can use if for housing, buys stocks, gold. It is fundamentally an Asset enhancement tool these days. My view is that CPF usage policy is ALREADY too liberal, many people don't KNOW how to use it. But yet they clamour for more and more liberalisation.


Medisave was introduced later, to assist with health care costs. It was never ever meant to be comprehensive cover. Again, over the years, its use has been liberalised.

So before we throw everything out the window on account of an emotive video of old couple who are out of Medisave money, lets sit back and be a little thoughtful about the fundamental issue here.

That is, this couple is poor and without family support.

That is the issue, and lets deal with that, not smashing the CPF usage policy. And there MUST be restrictions to CPF usage, otherwise, it will be useless as a retirement fund. We don't make policy by knee jerk (at least I hope you don't expect the g'ment to)

Thanks for trying to explain, 3Boys. To be frank, the CPF is so complex now that only HARRY can understand. To the layman, it is just a generic term to mean something that one can use when one reaches the age of retirement, or when one needs to pay for medical bills in a hospital. And that the CPF's fundamental role, is it not?

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

in summary, ALLOW the use of one's and kin's OWN MONEY to take care of their medical bills.. unless.. medisave is NOT own money.. then.. my argument is flawed..

As per my usual question, have you done the sums or even considered the knock-ons of such a policy? Its easy to be populist when one does not suffer the consequence of poor policy making.

I am not even asking for handouts from the govt.

So \"can see, cannot touch\" is good policy making?

[limlim]

3Boys:

People use terms simplistically. \"Oh, CPF is MY money, Medisave is MY money. I therefore can DO ANYTHING I want with it.\"


That is utter rubbish.

CPF is your money, with strings attached. Same with Medisave. Same as things like pensions, 401K schemes in the US, retirement funds, annuities. They belong to you, BUT, you do not have unfettered use of it, you cannot use it willy-nilly, for anything you like, anyhow you like.

I trust you understand why this is so, I don't have time to get into a long explanation.

I said, use CPF money for medical treatment when it is needed, not \"anything\".

So, need treatment, cannot touch CPF, no cash, no treatment => condition worsen => higher bills later or go to \"a better place\" is \"good policy\"?