Is GEP really necessary?
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kids who are gifted, their class size is small - 20-25pax a class. Those kids who are not gifted, their class size is big - 40pax a class. What logic is this? Shouldn't the small class for non-gifted because they need more helps than those gifted? :?
Since you are gifted, you need less help and you can figure out on your own! if you still need help, how to say you are gifted? the most is just higher ability!
Shouldn't MOE help those kids who are struggle? Gifted and high ability kids can take care on their own! If their cognitive level is higher than normal kids, then let them progress to a higher level so that they won't be bored to death in the class. -
ForumWriter:
:yikes: Did you proof-read what you have written? You are an ex-GEPper?
Haha in my time, we just suanned each other (similar abilities) outright, no mercy given for low scorers. Or make friendly bets on who scores better, loser has to do some forfeit. Works well, because people want face in winning these bragging rights!
Sadly, this doesn't work outside of GEP, because everyone will misunderstand and say you are an arrogant elitist. But I find that this competitive spirit works better than any physical punishment. Nothing else causes someone to study hard to beat others like a good \"haha yes! I own you, you suck\" to the face. No point comparing to people worse off though, always compete with people who are better. -
Melodies:
you are probably mistakenkids who are gifted, their class size is small - 20-25pax a class. Those kids who are not gifted, their class size is big - 40pax a class. What logic is this? Shouldn't the small class for non-gifted because they need more helps than those gifted? :?
Since you are gifted, you need less help and you can figure out on your own! if you still need help, how to say you are gifted? the most is just higher ability!
Shouldn't MOE help those kids who are struggle? Gifted and high ability kids can take care on their own! If their cognitive level is higher than normal kids, then let them progress to a higher level so that they won't be bored to death in the class.
GEP is not to help the gifted to cope with the PSLE syllabus. if it is purely on PSLE, they should be able to skip grade
GEP is a talent development program where the \"gifted\" kids are given opportunity to learn more than PSLE stuff and usually at higher level in a wider scope of knowledge, some of which are entirely out of the PSLE stuff. -
Following the earlier dyslexia and GEP debate with interest.
There are different types of learning disability and different severity of dyslexia.
Kids can have a specific language disability but the other domains may not be affected
If the kid has a wide discrepant score (20 or more) in the IQ tests bet verbal and non verbal, likely to have a specific disability or dyslexia.
Some kids only have very mild dyslexia, such as spelling problems, and these kids can still get into GEP bec the other domains can compensate. A typical dyslexia kid who has difficulty understanding the words and interpretation will not be able to get thru the GEP tests. -
ksi:
:yikes: Did you proof-read what you have written? You are an ex-GEPper?
Yes to both. But you won't see me using that outside of my circle of GEP friends, because... others aren't likely to understand will think that this is very elitist and arrogant. Among GEP peers, nothing is elitist.
When I was in P4, my parents said: \"You're in GEP, you're on your own now. We can't help you with your studies anymore.\" How else to get motivation other than through peers? Oh, and they don't cane/spank.
Disclaimer: While this method has been tried and proven with guys, it may not work with girls. I understand that the due to gender differences, the other gender may take these \"suannings\" personally and get rather emotional. -
This is exactly my point! If they think they r ready for a higher level or even boarded scopes, by all mean, pls give them the environment/alternative to learn themself since they r gifted! Why need to give them a smaller class size where there r kids need smaller class than them to get teacher attention to cope! Gifted kids just need pointer/direction to proceed on their own n u don't need to teach them. As such, u don't need to give them smaller class since u don't teach them. There r already many cases proved that high ability whose r not selected for gep can accelerate themself n managed to learn other than plse or even higher level n got into university at the tender age. It will be a shame if the gep kid can't make it if other higher ability can manage. If this is the case, That said a lot abt gep selection.
verykiasu2010:
you are probably mistakenMelodies:
kids who are gifted, their class size is small - 20-25pax a class. Those kids who are not gifted, their class size is big - 40pax a class. What logic is this? Shouldn't the small class for non-gifted because they need more helps than those gifted? :?
Since you are gifted, you need less help and you can figure out on your own! if you still need help, how to say you are gifted? the most is just higher ability!
Shouldn't MOE help those kids who are struggle? Gifted and high ability kids can take care on their own! If their cognitive level is higher than normal kids, then let them progress to a higher level so that they won't be bored to death in the class.
GEP is not to help the gifted to cope with the PSLE syllabus. if it is purely on PSLE, they should be able to skip grade
GEP is a talent development program where the \"gifted\" kids are given opportunity to learn more than PSLE stuff and usually at higher level in a wider scope of knowledge, some of which are entirely out of the PSLE stuff. -
Melodies:
This is exactly my point! If they think they r ready for a higher level or even boarded scopes, by all mean, pls give them the environment/alternative to learn themself since they r gifted! Why need to give them a smaller class size where there r kids need smaller class than them to get teacher attention to cope! Gifted kids just need pointer/direction to proceed on their own n u don't need to teach them. As such, u don't need to give them smaller class since u don't teach them. There r already many cases proved that high ability whose r not selected for gep can accelerate themself n managed to learn other than plse or even higher level n got into university at the tender age. It will be a shame if the gep kid can't make it if other higher ability can manage. If this is the case, That said a lot abt gep selection.
Can't help but be tempted to chip in here. I agree that the cohort of our GEP students using the GEP selection methodologies results in top 1% of students who are generalists, which means, these students will do well whether or not they are given special attention and small classes. Firstly, if they have to be good in both literacy and numeracy department to qualify, they are good learners and need no special attention. Hence, even if they are in a class size of 50, they will cope very well.
There are two groups of people who need small class sizes much more than the GEP students: the very gifted ones which are not necessarily good in two areas, who will need special attention, and those who fall below the average mark, who would do much better if given a smaller student-teacher ratio.
Dr Deborah Ruf wrote about the 5 levels of giftedness, something that is totally ignored in our GEP program. There are differences in the way we should handle such differences. However, under the name that the class size is too 'big' (25), the GEP kids are then handled homogeneously, which automatically reverts us back to the lowest level of giftedness, which means they are expected to behave, think and taught like high achievers rather than gifted individuals. High achievers need no special attention. They will achieve anyway. So, I'd say the GEP program makes little difference to the current GEPers who will excel in any kind of classroom.
A group totally left out are those who are at the level 5 of giftedness, which means more often than not, they will not fit into any school environment. It is not about behavior or socio-being. It is them. Such children simply do not function like other people. They think strangely, they act strangely and they have philosophical thinking beyond even their grade school teachers. Such beings suffer greatly in our GEP system, and our schools. Interestingly, from experience, once these children get into the university and get to meet people of their kind, they become at home with themselves. The sad thing is, in Singapore, with all those school-conditioning, by the time they get into university to meet the professors who understand them, they would have lost much of their special thinking abilities and 'prowess', resorting to mediocrity to survive. Hence, I again question why GEP if this group is not even catered for.
Another group that need small class size are those who fall below the average or those who hover around there. There are children who cannot afford tuition, who do not have parents who can guide them. Reducing class size for such children will make things completely different for them. The effect of putting our teaching resources into this area, I believe, will be greater than putting them into GEP. Moreover, GEP students, given the current culture, tend to come from better families and more educated parents, who can afford their education anyway. I feel the state should look into the needs of those who need more support.
Just my 2 cents' worth of thoughts after jumping around in the education system, in and out of GEP and decided that my youngest won't sit for the selection test afterall. We don't need that branding to tell him he will excel beyond his own imagination...
Lastly, the only thing a parent should ever want their child to be is normal, especially if the kid is so gifted he stands out just being himself. Sad thing is, with GEP, parents strive to brand their kids and make them different. O, just if they know the price they'd have to pay for doing so... :skeptical: -
2ppaamm:
:goodpost: :goodpost:Melodies:
This is exactly my point! If they think they r ready for a higher level or even boarded scopes, by all mean, pls give them the environment/alternative to learn themself since they r gifted! Why need to give them a smaller class size where there r kids need smaller class than them to get teacher attention to cope! Gifted kids just need pointer/direction to proceed on their own n u don't need to teach them. As such, u don't need to give them smaller class since u don't teach them. There r already many cases proved that high ability whose r not selected for gep can accelerate themself n managed to learn other than plse or even higher level n got into university at the tender age. It will be a shame if the gep kid can't make it if other higher ability can manage. If this is the case, That said a lot abt gep selection.
Can't help but be tempted to chip in here. I agree that the cohort of our GEP students using the GEP selection methodologies results in top 1% of students who are generalists, which means, these students will do well whether or not they are given special attention and small classes. Firstly, if they have to be good in both literacy and numeracy department to qualify, they are good learners and need no special attention. Hence, even if they are in a class size of 50, they will cope very well.
There are two groups of people who need small class sizes much more than the GEP students: the very gifted ones which are not necessarily good in two areas, who will need special attention, and those who fall below the average mark, who would do much better if given a smaller student-teacher ratio.
Dr Deborah Ruf wrote about the 5 levels of giftedness, something that is totally ignored in our GEP program. There are differences in the way we should handle such differences. However, under the name that the class size is too 'big' (25), the GEP kids are then handled homogeneously, which automatically reverts us back to the lowest level of giftedness, which means they are expected to behave, think and taught like high achievers rather than gifted individuals. High achievers need no special attention. They will achieve anyway. So, I'd say the GEP program makes little difference to the current GEPers who will excel in any kind of classroom.
A group totally left out are those who are at the level 5 of giftedness, which means more often than not, they will not fit into any school environment. It is not about behavior or socio-being. It is them. Such children simply do not function like other people. They think strangely, they act strangely and they have philosophical thinking beyond even their grade school teachers. Such beings suffer greatly in our GEP system, and our schools. Interestingly, from experience, once these children get into the university and get to meet people of their kind, they become at home with themselves. The sad thing is, in Singapore, with all those school-conditioning, by the time they get into university to meet the professors who understand them, they would have lost much of their special thinking abilities and 'prowess', resorting to mediocrity to survive. Hence, I again question why GEP if this group is not even catered for.
Another group that need small class size are those who fall below the average or those who hover around there. There are children who cannot afford tuition, who do not have parents who can guide them. Reducing class size for such children will make things completely different for them. The effect of putting our teaching resources into this area, I believe, will be greater than putting them into GEP. Moreover, GEP students, given the current culture, tend to come from better families and more educated parents, who can afford their education anyway. I feel the state should look into the needs of those who need more support.
Just my 2 cents' worth of thoughts after jumping around in the education system, in and out of GEP and decided that my youngest won't sit for the selection test afterall. We don't need that branding to tell him he will excel beyond his own imagination...
Lastly, the only thing a parent should ever want their child to be is normal, especially if the kid is so gifted he stands out just being himself. Sad thing is, with GEP, parents strive to brand their kids and make them different. O, just if they know the price they'd have to pay for doing so... :skeptical: -
:goodpost:
Agreed with all your points especially the high-lighted part. Given the limited teaching resources that we have, shouldn't we put them into a better use and help the most needed one and stretched resources and benefit the most students.2ppaamm:
Can't help but be tempted to chip in here. I agree that the cohort of our GEP students using the GEP selection methodologies results in top 1% of students who are generalists, which means, these students will do well whether or not they are given special attention and small classes. Firstly, if they have to be good in both literacy and numeracy department to qualify, they are good learners and need no special attention. Hence, even if they are in a class size of 50, they will cope very well.Melodies:
This is exactly my point! If they think they r ready for a higher level or even boarded scopes, by all mean, pls give them the environment/alternative to learn themself since they r gifted! Why need to give them a smaller class size where there r kids need smaller class than them to get teacher attention to cope! Gifted kids just need pointer/direction to proceed on their own n u don't need to teach them. As such, u don't need to give them smaller class since u don't teach them. There r already many cases proved that high ability whose r not selected for gep can accelerate themself n managed to learn other than plse or even higher level n got into university at the tender age. It will be a shame if the gep kid can't make it if other higher ability can manage. If this is the case, That said a lot abt gep selection.
There are two groups of people who need small class sizes much more than the GEP students: the very gifted ones which are not necessarily good in two areas, who will need special attention, and those who fall below the average mark, who would do much better if given a smaller student-teacher ratio.
Dr Deborah Ruf wrote about the 5 levels of giftedness, something that is totally ignored in our GEP program. There are differences in the way we should handle such differences. However, under the name that the class size is too 'big' (25), the GEP kids are then handled homogeneously, which automatically reverts us back to the lowest level of giftedness, which means they are expected to behave, think and taught like high achievers rather than gifted individuals. High achievers need no special attention. They will achieve anyway. So, I'd say the GEP program makes little difference to the current GEPers who will excel in any kind of classroom.
A group totally left out are those who are at the level 5 of giftedness, which means more often than not, they will not fit into any school environment. It is not about behavior or socio-being. It is them. Such children simply do not function like other people. They think strangely, they act strangely and they have philosophical thinking beyond even their grade school teachers. Such beings suffer greatly in our GEP system, and our schools. Interestingly, from experience, once these children get into the university and get to meet people of their kind, they become at home with themselves. The sad thing is, in Singapore, with all those school-conditioning, by the time they get into university to meet the professors who understand them, they would have lost much of their special thinking abilities and 'prowess', resorting to mediocrity to survive. Hence, I again question why GEP if this group is not even catered for.
Another group that need small class size are those who fall below the average or those who hover around there. There are children who cannot afford tuition, who do not have parents who can guide them. Reducing class size for such children will make things completely different for them. The effect of putting our teaching resources into this area, I believe, will be greater than putting them into GEP. Moreover, GEP students, given the current culture, tend to come from better families and more educated parents, who can afford their education anyway. I feel the state should look into the needs of those who need more support.
Just my 2 cents' worth of thoughts after jumping around in the education system, in and out of GEP and decided that my youngest won't sit for the selection test afterall. We don't need that branding to tell him he will excel beyond his own imagination...
Lastly, the only thing a parent should ever want their child to be is normal, especially if the kid is so gifted he stands out just being himself. Sad thing is, with GEP, parents strive to brand their kids and make them different. O, just if they know the price they'd have to pay for doing so... :skeptical: -
My kids are in a different system and something most Singaporeans think ‘inferior’ as we have been taught that our system is the best in the world. Let me run through what a surprise I got when I found out what the boys are doing.
My 12 year old (supposed to be P6 GEP this year) came home frowning that he did not really follow his class of his age peers. (He is dual enrolled in a primary school full-time with his age peers as well as full-time university program) His class is not your GEP or anything like that, there’s no such thing here. But what we have is just small class size of 25, though his class is that of higher ability. They were doing advanced trigonometry, and my son had not covered that topic yet, though he is very advanced in algebra (university level). So in desperation, he tuned in to Khan academy and picked up and got up to speed on sin, cos, their graphs and all those identities within a day or two.
So do we need GEP to help a child excel? My opinion is no, but with a small class size, good teachers with excellent motivation skills and an inquiry system, a child can excel and perform beyond his imagination. He said he would pick up Calculus by end of the year as well as learn Python programming. Will his teachers teach him? No. His professor told him that he should really look into it, download it into his computer and start cracking whenever he is ready. The professor asked him if he knew where to look for resources, he said he would surf out the tutorials on the internet and download the free resources. Here, parents and tutors are not involved in school work. As a mum, I only listen to his problems, don’t solve them.
My 9 year old came home today telling me about the different supernovas and soil conditions around the world. He wasn’t taught, he researched all of that out. He was given cues and asked to do whatever he wants.
To top it all, I did not pay a cent for their education. I simply sent them to a public school within the catchment where we are entitled free education. The private school I wanted to send them was full.
GEP is great, no doubt about it. But in my opinion, it is only great because of the kind of students they managed to attract, and the kind of parents these children come from. Good input, good output. And, that bell curve technique used by MOE works so well in our kiasu society, as long as it is there, it becomes an automated machine and parents just keep getting their children to chase it via tuition or external help. It is a well-oiled gadget that produces good academic results nevertheless. So good, that it is no longer necessary to put in great measures, great programs or attract great people to teach.
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