Is GEP really necessary?

[PiggyLalala]

2ppaamm:

Hi!

The reason to put a kid into GEP should have never been for the perks. It should always have been to maximize the potential of the child. Thank you for letting us all know what most GEP mothers think. Unfortunately, if a gifted program has to resort to such perks and advantages given to the children to attract them, it speaks of how successful it is. :yikes:

What I have shared earlier are just my own views, not too sure whether they are the views of most GEP mothers. I am a greedy mother too. Of course I hope that the GE program would maximize the potential of my boys but if it is going to reduce the chance of going to top IP schools, ( not because the GE program is not good but more because the GE program is not aimed to drill the students to perform at PSLE), I would say NO to the program.

Personally, I preferred IP schools as I feel that the programs are more holistic and it trains the students to be an independent and critical thinker.

Next, I venture in letting you know my thoughts about university entrance, since I get to involved in such process yearly. It is NOT about PSLE score. It is NOT about which IP schools they went to, hey, in fact, going to a good IP school could hamper your child's chance of getting into a good Ivy League school. Erm... not sure if that is your target, but if it is, then you will be in for a big surprise. I am not going to elaborate here because it takes time, maybe another time. But in the meantime, do yourself a simple exercise. Look for the university (not sec school) you want your kid to get into, and then the criteria. You will quickly realize your could be chasing after the wind, my friend. :frustrated: And that's my issue with the whole system. Everyone is chasing after something that gets them into the opposite direction. Such irony.

Singapore seems to have forgotten that even though we are an island, we are still in the world. :skeptical:

Thanks for sharing. I am really ignorant about university entrance. The only way that I know is having a stellar A level result. Do not have any friends that have been to good Ivy League school too. If you have the time, could you share more please. Thank you very much.

[Chenonceau]

My DD had 8 distinctions at A levels… Prize-winning sportswoman… 2 research awards amongst others. Rejected by Cambridge. Her best friend was VP of student council in secondary… She took a top tier PSC scholarship even BEFORE sitting A levels. Rejected by Princeton AND Harvard.


Ivy leagues want you to be top of your school. They don’t care whether you come from a school where you compete with the best of the nation or not. It’s the bell curve in YOUR school that counts. It doesn’t matter that the average in RI is better academically than the top in another school in China, the top in the other school stands a better chance. DD’s tutor explained that Cambridge reduced intake of Singaporean students greatly last year. The places went to PRC students instead. Pam’s kids went on alternative paths where they don’t compete like crazy. They had differentiated paths and this differentiation has put almost all of them in Harvard on scholarship. I am not sure Pam’s kids are smarter than DD’s best friend. They’re just so lucky to have Pam. This is what Pam meant by we may be an island but we are part of the world.

That has been our experience.

But if you’re not sticky about Ivy League then a good A level certainly does get you nice bond free scholarships to NUS and various Australian unis. We’re not sticky about Ivy League in our family. We reckon that after 5 years in the workforce… Unless you wanna be in academia… No one cares which uni you went to.

[PiggyLalala]

Chenonceau:

My DD had 8 distinctions at A levels... Prize-winning sportswoman... 2 research awards amongst others. Rejected by Cambridge. Her best friend was VP of student council in secondary... She took a top tier PSC scholarship even BEFORE sitting A levels. Rejected by Princeton.


Ivy leagues want you to be top of your school. They don't care whether you come from a school where you compete with the best of the nation or not. It's the bell curve in YOUR school that counts. It doesn't matter that the average in RI is better academically than the top in another school in China, the top in the other school stands a better chance.

That has been our experience.

But if you're not sticky about Ivy League then a good A level certain does get you nice bond free scholarships to NUS and various Australian unis. We're not sticky about Ivy League in our family. We reckon that after 5 years in the workforce... Unless you wanna be in academia... No one cares which uni you went to.

Thank you for yr sharing, Chen. You have answered the question that I have in mind.

[justbehappy]

Incidentally, there is an article about purpose of GEP scheme in today's Straits Times.


Gifted Scheme is not about hothousing
The Straits Times, 18 August 2012
by Janice Heng
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[HVR]

2ppaamm,


You have many valid points in your long post. You ask for level playing field for all but what if all participants in the field is not level to begin with? Wouldn’t by levering the field itself ‘not fair’?

I see more IP schools coming up. I think GEP or not, the system recognise that top 10% of the cohort would ultimately ended up in University and the IP through train allow them to skip the, if I may, ‘redundant’ ‘O’ level and that’s why we are opening up more IP schools. So, be it mainstreamers or geppers, if you are among the top 10%, you should secure a spot in one of the IP schools with no problem. So why fault the GEP system? Why say DSA deprive mainstreamers a spot in IP school? Geppers ony consists of about 1 % in any given cohort and the way I see it, if you are among the top 10%, you will get a spot in an IP school.

I think we can agree that when come to education, we cannot have a ‘one side fit all’ approach. We can agree in any cohort, there will be about 1% who are ‘gifted’ and 0.1% who are exceptionally ‘gifted’. If these ‘gifted’ one are lump together with the rest to receive the same education program, we will stifle their potentials and make them mediocre. That’s not my view, that’s what I gathered after reading up on GEP after I first came to know GEP in 2010.

I think what really debatable is how we determine giftedness in a child. Can we tell when they are 9, 10 years old? The research said can and until it is proven otherwise what can we do but to accept it? The intention behind GEP is good because we have to identify the ‘gifted’ one early and nurture them differently. We have to harness their talents in view of our scarce resources as we only have ‘human power’ to tap on.

All said, I think education system is one thing but as parents, we have to prepare to step in if we find the system inadequate or not benefiting our children. After all, the system is design to benefit the majority and with so many different students with different backgrounds and abilities, how can we expect the system to suit everyone? Certain degree of sacrifice is expected in order to bring up our children. Cannot expect MOE or relevant authority to do everything for us. In another thread, people are talking ‘incentive’ for ‘children’, there is totally no mention of having children because we love them, we feel sense of fulfillment in bringing them up to be a good person, contributing member of society, etc. Reading those comments really turn my heart cold.

2ppaamm, I know you strive to better things for the masses but I think GEP is a good program. But I have to concede if too many pupils enter GEP due to hothousing, then the very purpose of GEP is defeated.

[corneyAmber]

Hi Chenon,


Can you share what course did your girl apply to and if it was relevant to her results?
I knew another child with stellar results also rejected by Cambridge because she was applying to a course that she did not have some subjects covered at ‘A’ levels. The good news is with good results at national level, getting into a good university is never an issue. They can be rejected at their first choices but they will still end up in a good alternative somewhere. That child got into another good uni with scholarship in the course of choice. She may not get her choice of uni but she got her choice of course which was important to her as well.

[verykiasu2010]

Chenonceau:

My DD had 8 distinctions at A levels... Prize-winning sportswoman... 2 research awards amongst others. Rejected by Cambridge. Her best friend was VP of student council in secondary... She took a top tier PSC scholarship even BEFORE sitting A levels. Rejected by Princeton AND Harvard.


Ivy leagues want you to be top of your school. They don't care whether you come from a school where you compete with the best of the nation or not. It's the bell curve in YOUR school that counts. It doesn't matter that the average in RI is better academically than the top in another school in China, the top in the other school stands a better chance. DD's tutor explained that Cambridge reduced intake of Singaporean students greatly last year. The places went to PRC students instead. Pam's kids went on alternative paths where they don't compete like crazy. They had differentiated paths and this differentiation has put almost all of them in Harvard on scholarship. I am not sure Pam's kids are smarter than DD's best friend. They're just so lucky to have Pam. This is what Pam meant by we may be an island but we are part of the world.

That has been our experience.

But if you're not sticky about Ivy League then a good A level certainly does get you nice bond free scholarships to NUS and various Australian unis. We're not sticky about Ivy League in our family. We reckon that after 5 years in the workforce... Unless you wanna be in academia... No one cares which uni you went to.

that is true. a banker working on my project was from Princeton. the bank did not do well and he was let go and still jobless and going for interviews

after a few years in the workforce, it no longer matter which uni you come from. where you are from was just an entry ticket

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Hi Chenon,


Can you share what course did your girl apply to and if it was relevant to her results?
I knew another child with stellar results also rejected by Cambridge because she was applying to a course that she did not have some subjects covered at 'A' levels. The good news is with good results at national level, getting into a good university is never an issue. They can be rejected at their first choices but they will still end up in a good alternative somewhere. That child got into another good uni with scholarship in the course of choice. She may not get her choice of uni but she got her choice of course which was important to her as well.

It was relevant. She had everything she needed. It may have been a fluke year... I dunno. She was in the Humanities Prog (this used to be called PROMSHO) which traditionally sends a large proportion of students into top unis (and I mean the REALLY top... not just top 10% unis) in England and USA. Though 2012's cohort did much better overall than 2011... the proportion that made it into top unis (and I mean really top) were smaller.

DD was disappointed and had a chat with her expat tutor in JC. He mentioned China.

[Chenonceau]

HVR:

I think what really debatable is how we determine giftedness in a child. Can we tell when they are 9, 10 years old? The research said can and until it is proven otherwise what can we do but to accept it? The intention behind GEP is good because we have to identify the 'gifted' one early and nurture them differently. We have to harness their talents in view of our scarce resources as we only have 'human power' to tap on.

Research has moved beyond the premises upon which the current GEP (as described by Pam) is built. The MOE is sorely out of touch with research. Else, it would have known NOT to motivate good character using $$$$$ because every research paper published in the last 15 years yells against that practice.

I am not as familiar with gifted research but I do know enough to know that the GEP Pam describes is not consistent with what is known today about giftedness.

HVR:

All said, I think education system is one thing but as parents, we have to prepare to step in if we find the system inadequate or not benefiting our children. After all, the system is design to benefit the majority and with so many different students with different backgrounds and abilities, how can we expect the system to suit everyone?

At present, the majority in mainstream are ill-served by the privileges granted to GEPpers - smaller classes of 25 and well-written resources provided by GEP branch.

From what Pam writes, GEP has evolved closer to the generalist education previously indicative of mainstream - forcing the truly gifted (often skewed) to stay out. From my own experience, mainstream has evolved closer to GEP in its requirements (i.e., emphasis on inquiry-based learning). If the 2 have converged, it is not surprising that people question the difference in privileges accorded to GEP-pers. Just being logical here.

HVR:

Certain degree of sacrifice is expected in order to bring up our children. Cannot expect MOE or relevant authority to do everything for us.

But MOE cannot also expect that parents and tutors do everything for it.

[Melodies]

Hi Pam and Chen, thank you for your sharing. I am grateful to you two! I knew long ago that not just these Ivy league Uni but most oversea Uni have a certain quote for each country and they prefer a candidate who has huge/different exposures/experiences for diversity purposes. It is always easier for a student from a country less competitive but huge population to get entry than a student from a very competitive but small population. How blind I am? I go along unquestioningly with the current education system which try to train a perfectionist and generalist, with potentially bad consequence. Your posts serve a very good wake-up call to me. I know I have to do something because I don't want my dd to be trapped in current education system and become a lemming! :sad: The world is big with many alternatives! :salute: :please: