Is GEP really necessary?
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atutor2001:
Where do you get this statistics?
I think most parents (whatever their views) are supportive of GEP for the naturally gifted kids like your case.osim:
Agree! I am a parent of GEP kid and I think it is very tiresome to help non-gepper parents appreciate the need and importance of the programme for these kids.
If it helps, see the Geppers as a group of special need children, just like the autistic children have special needs and need special education, these gifted kids need special education too. If you have a naturally gifted child, you
will be so thankful that MOE is helping you to help them. Some of these kids are really so amazing even the MOE GEP is not enough to fuel their intellectual need. Their parents still have to DIY by providing other resources (advance text on subjects of kid's interest) or music and arts, etc to keep them occupied.
However, many are upset not with GEP but rather with the selection process, which can be and has been, abused by those who prepare their kids for the test so that they can DSA through GEP to their choice school. Whether it is an easier route or not is not a concern for them as they see no harm in having an added alternative route for their kids to their choice school and glamour. They are also prepared to do the projects for their kids and pay for tuition.
These so-called gifted kids comprise quite a high percentage in the GEP cohort and they are the ones who tarnished the image of otherwise a very good programme for the truly gifted. To make matter worse, the selection process has failed to identify Lim Jeck - making many questioning its accuracy and reliability.
As long as we did not prepare our kids for the GEP selection and did not do their works for them, we can be proud to have a kid in GEP. -
Hi OSIM, plse try to see the point of NO one here has disputed the need to have the existing GEP program and some think that the program should extend to a wider population like top 25% of the cohort. Some has very good suggestions to modify the existing GEP program to suit those GEPpers who are still bored with the GEP program and are ready for a even higher level than the existing.... .
Honestly, if GEPper ( I didn't say all but some) can't manage to perform in PSLE (which is at a lower level than GEP level) despite all the good resources and extensive materials which are pitched at the higher level. There is something wrong with the IP program which ignored the foundation required to back you up at a higher level. Like building a house, you need to build a very strong and robust pillar to support your high. That's my analysis based on what I have observed and read so far.
Up to now, I still can't understand why you need to do the drilling for your PSLE grammar/vocabs if you are already in Sec level of grammar/vocab for cloze passages. I'd think that you have not built up the necessary foundation for sec level grammar/vocabs. So, the program should allow this group of GEPers to build up their foundation. I knew that I am going to upset some parents here but I would like to highlight this so that parents are aware of this and can help their GEP ds/dd.osim:
Agree! I am a parent of GEP kid and I think it is very tiresome to help non-gepper parents appreciate the need and importance of the programme for these kids.ksi:
It is ok to share views and exchange is key, but information about GEP must be validated and be accurate. I have noted a number of discrepancies and some are repeated and I believe the GEP parents are tired to educate and correct the wrong notion anymore. I believe you will drive them to stop sharing....so what is so sharing about this entire topic at the end of the day?
It would be mainly a lop-sided view and a wrong one. No one will benefit from this. 
If it helps, see the Geppers as a group of special need children, just like the autistic children have special needs and need special education, these gifted kids need special education too. If you have a naturally gifted child, you
will be so thankful that MOE is helping you to help them. Some of these kids are really so amazing even the MOE GEP is not enough to fuel their intellectual need. Their parents still have to DIY by providing other resources (advance text on subjects of kid's interest) or music and arts, etc to keep them occupied. -
[quote=\"Melodies\"]Hi OSIM, plse try to see the point of NO one here has disputed the need to have the existing GEP program and some think that the program should extend to a wider population like top 25% of the cohort. Some has very good suggestions to modify the existing GEP program to suit those GEPpers who are still bored with the GEP program and are ready for a even higher level than the existing.... .
Honestly, if GEPper ( I didn't say all but some) can't manage to perform in PSLE (which is at a lower level than GEP level) despite all the good resources and extensive materials which are pitched at the higher level. There is something wrong with the IP program which ignored the foundation required to back you up at a higher level. Like building a house, you need to build a very strong and robust pillar to support your high. That's my analysis based on what I have observed and read so far.
Up to now, I still can't understand why you need to do the drilling for your PSLE grammar/vocabs if you are already in Sec level of grammar/vocab for cloze passages. I'd think that you have not built up the necessary foundation for sec level grammar/vocabs. So, the program should allow this group of GEPers to build up their foundation. I knew that I am going to upset some parents here but I would like to highlight this so that parents are aware of this and can help their GEP ds/dd.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: -
ksi:
I don't believe in statistical bluff. We can reduce the percentage of HIV by killing them. We can reduce the % of empty flats by demolishing them. But the official reasons given would be that there is an improvement to the health situation or that the take up rate of empty flats has increased. (just example - no truth at all)
Where do you get this statistics?
Personal knowledge is best. All my kids when to Sec and JC with GEPers in the school and I have been kaypohing on who and who are the top students. Besides the few top GEPers in each cohort, most fade away.
Yes, many will jump in and claim that GEPers does not equate to good exam results. I always wonder - exam which is relatively easier than GEPers curriculum. How can one be a GEPer and not do well in A level (no T-score to distort the result and they get to select the subject of their choice). Then others will say \"oh, GEPers were not interested in exam that is why they don't do well\". This makes me even more puzzled because I always remember gifted people are good in nearly everything they do though they are better in those things they like. Ordinary people are no match to them even for things they dislike. Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo... are not only good in painting. They are scientist, mathematician, poet.... Ya, another group will claim \"we can't expect our gifted kid to be of that level like these greats.\" Ya definitely not such level, but at least should be able to do well in a simple A level exam.
Lastly, what is better then getting feedback from the students themselves. I have 3 kids and many friends. I may not be a tutor but I know many students. -
:oops: Don't be like that le...
Just wonder why nobody really asked why some can't perform in PSLE, R they aware of the problem? The current program does not allow them to work on the week area?.Too many projects until you :imdrowning: and can't find time to build your foundation? So modify the program a bit is good for this group of pupils, right? Parents can also help wa..pinball:
Melodies:
Hi OSIM, plse try to see the point of NO one here has disputed the need to have the existing GEP program and some think that the program should extend to a wider population like top 25% of the cohort. Some has very good suggestions to modify the existing GEP program to suit those GEPpers who are still bored with the GEP program and are ready for a even higher level than the existing.... .
Honestly, if GEPper ( I didn't say all but some) can't manage to perform in PSLE (which is at a lower level than GEP level) despite all the good resources and extensive materials which are pitched at the higher level. There is something wrong with the IP program which ignored the foundation required to back you up at a higher level. Like building a house, you need to build a very strong and robust pillar to support your high. That's my analysis based on what I have observed and read so far.
Up to now, I still can't understand why you need to do the drilling for your PSLE grammar/vocabs if you are already in Sec level of grammar/vocab for cloze passages. I'd think that you have not built up the necessary foundation for sec level grammar/vocabs. So, the program should allow this group of GEPers to build up their foundation. I knew that I am going to upset some parents here but I would like to highlight this so that parents are aware of this and can help their GEP ds/dd.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: -
Melodies:
Sorry Melodies, I have to use your example to point out some flaws in the discussion which you may not be aware of.Hi OSIM, plse try to see the point of (1)NO one here has disputed the need to have the existing GEP program and some think that (2) the program should extend to a wider population like top 25% of the cohort. (3)Some has very good suggestions to modify the existing GEP program to suit those GEPpers who are still bored with the GEP program and are ready for a even higher level than the existing.... .
1. There have been discussion in this thread by various posts to demolish GEP completely. So the 'no one disputed....' is not true.
2. \"The programme should...... top 25%\", do you know if you are doing the children a favour or not? GEP is a self-learning/self-discovery programme. Now MOE already subtly put \"teach less learn more\" in mainstream and it is already killing the kids...including HA and the point is proven that most kids are not suited for this. Are parents going to cry foul again? As it is, parents are so furious with \"Teach Less, Learn More\".. Also, the top 26th, 27th, 28th% will ask you why not top 30%, what is so great about top 25% and the never ending story goes on........ see the vicious cycle here?
3. This is another assumption of the GEP. -
atutor2001:
I respect that you have 3 kids and many friends but how is the high percentage derived? Just purely from your network of friends?
I don't believe in statistical bluff. We can reduce the percentage of HIV by killing them. We can reduce the % of empty flats by demolishing them. But the official reasons given would be that there is an improvement to the health situation or that the take up rate of empty flats has increased. (just example - no truth at all)ksi:
Where do you get this statistics?
Personal knowledge is best. All my kids when to Sec and JC with GEPers in the school and I have been kaypohing on who and who are the top students. Besides the few top GEPers in each cohort, most fade away.
Yes, many will jump in and claim that GEPers does not equate to good exam results. I always wonder - exam which is relatively easier than GEPers curriculum. How can one be a GEPer and not do well in A level (no T-score to distort the result and they get to select the subject of their choice). Then others will say \"oh, GEPers were not interested in exam that is why they don't do well\". This makes me even more puzzled because I always remember gifted people are good in nearly everything they do though they are better in those things they like. Ordinary people are no match to them even for things they dislike. Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo... are not only good in painting. They are scientist, mathematician, poet.... Ya, another group will claim \"we can't expect our gifted kid to be of that level like these greats.\" Ya definitely not such level, but at least should be able to do well in a simple A level exam.
Lastly, what is better then getting feedback from the students themselves. I have 3 kids and many friends. I may not be a tutor but I know many students.
Sorry, but if you can tell us you know JUST ONE COHORT of ALL 500+ kids to come to this conclusion, we can still believe you, at least for that cohort otherwise this unsubstantiated information looks feeble to the extent of being vicious to the children and there is an obvious lack of compassion for this group of children.
When the 99% education is empowered by schools to run its operations, I can totally empathise with the myriad of practices which have caused a great deal of unhappiness and I support its cause for improvement whole-heartedly. When the only 1% is consistently controlled by MOE, I cannot see what unhappiness can there be to seek demolition or improvement, do we think MOE has been operating without experts for this?
PS: Btw, do you know if Leonardo da Vinci ever top in any of his academic studies? I cannot seem to find any records on this. -
ksi:
Sorry Melodies, I have to use your example to point out some flaws in the discussion which you may not be aware of.Melodies:
Hi OSIM, plse try to see the point of (1)NO one here has disputed the need to have the existing GEP program and some think that (2) the program should extend to a wider population like top 25% of the cohort. (3)Some has very good suggestions to modify the existing GEP program to suit those GEPpers who are still bored with the GEP program and are ready for a even higher level than the existing.... .
1. There have been discussion in this thread by various posts to demolish GEP completely. So the 'no one disputed....' is not true.
O, I did'nt know that at least I do not read that, was it earlier posts?
2. \"The programme should...... top 25%\", do you know if you are doing the children a favour or not? GEP is a self-learning/self-discovery programme. Now MOE already subtly put \"teach less learn more\" in mainstream and it is already killing the kids...including HA and the point is proven that most kids are not suited for this. Are parents going to cry foul again? As it is, parents are so furious with \"Teach Less, Learn More\".. Also, the top 26th, 27th, 28th% will ask you why not top 30%, what is so great about top 25% and the never ending story goes on........ see the vicious cycle here?
Honestly, parents cried foul about teach less learn more because there are insufficient resources (such as smaller class size) and supports in term of materials and trained teacher from school and parents have no choice but to engage tutors or subscribe tuition or/and parent finds their own resources to help their dc. When compared to GEP, just realized that there are much more resources/supports given to GEPers whereby they are more pupils who need more than GEPpers.
3. This is another assumption of the GEP.
Which assumption you think is flaw? you mean there are not pitched at a higher level? or assumption of some GEPpers are bored? -
why don’t we look at the END product? meaning what are these 500 GEPers lead their lives?
I know the recent one of the recipient for President Scholarship is a GEPer. -
ksi:
So sorry I do not have statistic of all 500 kids. But just 2 latest cases for your inference :.....
Sorry, but if you can tell us you know JUST ONE COHORT of ALL 500+ kids to come to this conclusion, we can still believe you, at least for that cohort otherwise this unsubstantiated information looks feeble to the extent of being vicious to the children and there is an obvious lack of compassion for this group of children.
When the 99% education is empowered by schools to run its operations, I can totally empathise with the myriad of practices which have caused a great deal of unhappiness and I support its cause for improvement whole-heartedly. When the only 1% is consistently controlled by MOE, I cannot see what unhappiness can there be to seek demolition or improvement, do we think MOE has been operating without experts for this?
A class of 20 with 3 GEPers. 7 students failed 2 subjects or more and all 3 GEPers are in them - ya this is a scary class.
A class of 20 with 5 GEPers - none of them were in the top 3 - ya this is one of the top classes.
Unfortunately don't have sample for an average class.
PS Good that you have great faith in our system.
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