Is GEP really necessary?
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So, the GEP kids have better access to better materials relevant to PSLE, and they are brighter, have better teachers, smaller class size, and they do not necessarily do well in PSLE, they get to IP schools, they don’t necessarily perform for O’s or A’s or IB, and therefore they MIGHT not make it to the best universities. And then we expect them to contribute more to the society. Where is the problem? I know that as a GEP mum, I will be asking why. Where is the gap?
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Just an observation on my part and from my SIL who is a very senior teacher in an elite secondary school in Singapore.
GEPers are more then willing to mix with their mainstream school mates given the opportunity. The problem, which becomes more pronounced in secondary school when the segregation slowly disappear and they are in the same class are:
1. Mainstream students ostracize the GEPers and do not want to mix with them. Calling them wierd or names. I was really surprise when SIL told me this. I had thought that the GEPer may be the Ya Ya ones who don't want to mix, but not true according to her many years of interaction with a mixed class of GEPers and non-GEPers.
2. GEPers think very differently. Not sure how to explain this, but they go so deep, especially in topics that they have an interest in. And here, I am referring not to those who go prep school to get there. But those who get there without prep school.
3. GEPers need not necessarily be top students academically. They are not dumb, but not top too. Some main streamers do much much better at their exams. Maybe just wired differently? Not better or worse.
Perhaps as parents, we should stop being Yaya when our kids get into GEP or envious of those whose kids get it, and ours don't. Then maybe our kids can co-exist happily without prejudice or complex.
For the record, I have 2 secondary boys, one GEP and one not, so I see things on both sides
They are both different and each learn differently and will not necessarily do better in the other system. -
Dnls_mum:
Mainstream students ostracize the GEPers and do not want to mix with them.
And that is the whole problem of the GEP the way it is. There is always a way to enrich without having to set them apart. The society is such that we empathize with the underdogs, and this phenomenon should be expected. No one promotes this, it is just the way it is.
So, like a broken record, I am saying again... there is always a better way to enrich their learning without labeling them. The benefit is for the GEPers as well as the mainstreamers, and the group left out: EP/PG, gifted skewed learners. And, like a broken record, I repeat that it is wrong to leave this batch out and put them in the mainstream (which does not mean I saying GEP should be for this group ONLY). The GEP should embrace all giftedness, whether the learner is a high ability one or not, 2E or NT. As it is, it is leaving out the non-high ability gifted learners. Phrase it this way, that way... and every way I think I can. Increasing the student-ratio to say, 20-1 instead of the current 10-1 can mean a lot more opportunities for those academically or financially disadvantaged. Anyway, it is about time we plan to move everyone to a smaller class size, and these are just a short term measure.
Mixing is always better ... once a group is branded, it is hard to remove that label, in fact, sometimes, some PG/EG deliberately get labeled 2E, so that people will pity them on the disability part. -
:goodpost: Hear hear...
Mainstreams are ill-served and wonder why??
40-45 students in one class and MOE wanted the teacher to 'teach less and learn more'.. how to? So, parents have to tap on GEP materials! :yikes: Just wonder why don't extend the program to a wider population. Good program must share la.. What crab mentality is this?Chenonceau:
Woah! Why am I quoted? I hardly posted here! I know too little about today's GEP to make intelligent comment. The ONLY points I wrote in here were...Edureach:
Let me illustrate why there are some hidden values from the postings of 2ppaam, chenonceau and some others in this thread. I shall attempt to answer it from another perspective, stock investment and trading. These contributors hve mentioned ideas such as understand yourself, positioning, selection of battle ground, opportunities, training, preserverance, psychology, aptitude/attitude and accountability for one's decisions.
At this juncture, let me quote the following famed investors and trader in our modern era.
John Templeton: The price appreciation of a stock depends on the uptrend of its earning per share
Warren Buffet: In the shorterm, the price of a stock is determined by popular votes whereas in the longterm, its being determined by its intrisnic/franchise value.
Jessie Levimorre: Throughout my learning journey, its is the sitting that i found most difficult to master.
All of us will observe that when we turn on to cna, bloomsberg cnbc, mainstreamtream medias, we will come across analysts giving their assessment of a given stock and reading of the general mrkt and economy. All these are indeed value reporting, however, if one aspires to be a successful player on a sustainable basis in the long run, listening to all these suggestions will lead you to mediocre performance at best, worst scenario, disaster. Why? The mrkt trades 6-9 mths ahead of the economic condition therefore, the price of a stock may not reflex its realities down the road. Example- how often you see a stock which you think is fundamentally sound went against u and mths later you found that negative news emerged and vice versa. In short, analysts hve better info than u at least, their understanding of an impt stock especially a blue chip is much superior than men on the street ie retail players. The playing field is not even, let face it. The big boys hve access to top mgt of blue chip firms than ordinary people like us do not.
So how to we counter it. As retail players, we hve one major advantage, we can choose to define our playing field whereby big boys couldn't. Both 2ppaamm and chenonceau had outlined this fact in their postings. We can select a counter that's not on the radar screen of instituitions, of course a counter that demonstrates phenomental growth in terms of both revenue and profits. Examples counters in the past namely, HTL Int'l, Omni ind, venture, Hyflux, Ges, Sincere Watch, Rotary just to name some. All these counters had on certain yrs outperformed the best of the best blue chips listed on SGX. When we are really educated in this area, we know which stock to pick and just sit tight.
I hve learnt in my journey to listen to wise advices and also to discard away noises and i am still learning. That's just too much to learn. Thinking that yr position is fundamentally sound when the technical and price actions show otherwise is like one who sticks to his opinion thinking his is still the most superior.
All in all, we need to operate in wisdom to be successful whether as parents or our chosen field.
(1) We should not quibble about GEP's privileges.
(2) We should extend small classes to mainstream (... and give mainstream teachers better quality written resources)
(3) We should do something to ensure that the Us VS Them attitude doesn't get worse
(4) We should NOT do away with the GEP.
I am not sure I appreciate being cited to support views I don't subscribe to. Though... I really dunno what views you have because I haven't been following this thread properly. I read a few good posts (that Pam wrote) and some vitriol by some others, but I dun think I came across your posts when I pop in here twice a day for a short time. I also have trouble understanding your this post. Very cheem.
But man! I feel so lucky I logged on here just in time to ogle Nebbermind.
About Mainstreamers Now
I seriously think mainstreamers are deprived of basic good teaching.... at least in my son's school. I've been making a helluva lotta noise in other threads about the sufficiency of mainstream teaching and it ALSO HURTS when GEP parents go there to suan me because they dun understand that when I say basic teaching is lacking... it is REALLY lacking in some schools. We need smaller classes. We need better teaching materials and more of it.
I dun want an enriched curriculum that I have to use MY OWN GEP trained teaching skills to teach my son... and see him climb up from 28th position to 8th and then to 2nd. I dun wanna have to make my own language recordings blah blah blah...
And yes... it does hurt when some (largely absent from this thread) GEP or HAT parents from GEP schools come and tell me that I complain too much or am NOT contented. Keep whatever GEP has. I am happy that at least some people have a good experience. But understand also that there are those like my son, whose Chinese Teacher was so starved of teaching materials she asked the class to contribute their tuition materials for sharing. So yes... like TCK said... extend these basic necessities to mainstream too (25 per class and good materials to read and teach with).
I taught my son from GEP notes friends gave me. Without those notes, my son would probably still be bottom of the class because I won't allow tuition. -
2ppaamm:
So, the GEP kids have better access to better materials relevant to PSLE, and they are brighter, have better teachers, smaller class size, and they do not necessarily do well in PSLE, they get to IP schools, they don't necessarily perform for O's or A's or IB, and therefore they MIGHT not make it to the best universities. And then we expect them to contribute more to the society. Where is the problem? I know that as a GEP mum, I will be asking why. Where is the gap?
From my observation, they may not be the top student but they generally do well enough for Uni if they want to and put their mind to it.
The GEP exposes them to different things. Most GEPers get bored at the pace of the general cohort and when that happens sometimes they tune off from learning. The fast pace and additional materials keep them interested.
Also, GEPers are not necessarily best in everything. There are areas where they are extremely strong, areas which they are the same as everyone else. What is important is to give them the opportuity to develop their strength. That is the purpose of education, isn't it?
Then again, there are GEPers who got there by attending pre-classes. These are possibly those who slip through the cracks. -
2ppaamm:
Dnls_mum:
Mainstream students ostracize the GEPers and do not want to mix with them.
And that is the whole problem of the GEP the way it is. There is always a way to enrich without having to set them apart. The society is such that we empathize with the underdogs, and this phenomenon should be expected. No one promotes this, it is just the way it is.
So, like a broken record, I am saying again... there is always a better way to enrich their learning without labeling them. The benefit is for the GEPers as well as the mainstreamers, and the group left out: EP/PG, gifted skewed learners. And, like a broken record, I repeat that it is wrong to leave this batch out and put them in the mainstream (which does not mean I saying GEP should be for this group ONLY). The GEP should embrace all giftedness, whether the learner is a high ability one or not, 2E or NT. As it is, it is leaving out the non-high ability gifted learners. Phrase it this way, that way... and every way I think I can. Increasing the student-ratio to say, 20-1 instead of the current 10-1 can mean a lot more opportunities for those academically or financially disadvantaged. Anyway, it is about time we plan to move everyone to a smaller class size, and these are just a short term measure.
Mixing is always better ... once a group is branded, it is hard to remove that label, in fact, sometimes, some PG/EG deliberately get labeled 2E, so that people will pity them on the disability part.
Agree Agree. That's why when my boy went to GEP, I insisted that he take up CCA that is not academically linked! No Comp Science, Robotic or even Math Olympiad. I made him join scouts! He was the only GEPer in Scouts! :rotflmao: I want him to mix with others and enjoy outdoor group activities. It worked! He is now in IP school (NJC) but not GEP school and has no problem mixing with his other classmates. He is doing well in school and his teacher did notice that he is very fast with maths and always had alternative solutions and so asked us and was not surprise when we confirmed he came from GEP. He now does accelerated maths which is good for him as he was already showing signs of being bored with the general math curriculum. His teacher has asked him to be a peer tutor, and he has our blessings to share his knowledge with his classmates. Again, his CCA now is Canoeing and not in some acedamically linked CCA, and he is enjoying it and mixing well with all regardless of academic strength.
So frankly, we can make the best of the situation and it is up to us parents to decide how we want our child to grow up
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Dnls_mum:
It feels so good hearing real life stories like these. Sounds like a leader in the making. Dnls_mum, thanks for sharing! :thankyou:
Agree Agree. That's why when my boy went to GEP, I insisted that he take up CCA that is not academically linked! No Comp Science, Robotic or even Math Olympiad. I made him join scouts! He was the only GEPer in Scouts! :rotflmao: I want him to mix with others and enjoy outdoor group activities. It worked! He is now in IP school (NJC) but not GEP school and has no problem mixing with his other classmates. He is doing well in school and his teacher did notice that he is very fast with maths and always had alternative solutions and so asked us and was not surprise when we confirmed he came from GEP. He now does accelerated maths which is good for him as he was already showing signs of being bored with the general math curriculum. His teacher has asked him to be a peer tutor, and he has our blessings to share his knowledge with his classmates. Again, his CCA now is Canoeing and not in some acedamically linked CCA, and he is enjoying it and mixing well with all regardless of academic strength.
So frankly, we can make the best of the situation and it is up to us parents to decide how we want our child to grow up -
Dnls_mum:
:goodpost: of course! And I like the way you described NJC's enrichment, also like RI's, they teach everyone the same thing, and then if you are good, they are pulled out for deeper study of the subjects, and even have a chance to teach others.
So frankly, we can make the best of the situation and it is up to us parents to decide how we want our child to grow up
I meant for the gifted to be taught this way, and hence no need for a selected group called G-E-P. Not put them apart and treat them like some aliens, or sometimes, like gods. GEP kids don't want to be gods, they want to be just a kid, and still get to learn. Mainstream kids also have the same access. When they are good, they also get access, whether they are gifted, or high ability, as long as they can cope, they get a chance. That's what I believe enrichment for the gifted or anyone should be. Equal opportunity for all.
The secondary schools were enlightened long ago, how long more are they going to cling on at primary level? What purpose is there? -
2ppaamm:
What if they cannot cope?
:goodpost: of course! And I like the way you described NJC's enrichment, also like RI's, they teach everyone the same thing, and then if you are good, they are pulled out for deeper study of the subjects, and even have a chance to teach others.Dnls_mum:
So frankly, we can make the best of the situation and it is up to us parents to decide how we want our child to grow up
I meant for the gifted to be taught this way, and hence no need for a selected group called G-E-P. Not put them apart and treat them like some aliens, or sometimes, like gods. GEP kids don't want to be gods, they want to be just a kid, and still get to learn. Mainstream kids also have the same access. When they are good, they also get access, whether they are gifted, or high ability, as long as they can cope, they get a chance. That's what I believe enrichment for the gifted or anyone should be. Equal opportunity for all.
The secondary schools were enlightened long ago, how long more are they going to cling on at primary level? What purpose is there? -
ksi:
What if they cannot cope?[/quote]Who cannot cope? :?
:goodpost: of course! And I like the way you described NJC's enrichment, also like RI's, they teach everyone the same thing, and then if you are good, they are pulled out for deeper study of the subjects, and even have a chance to teach others.2ppaamm:
[quote=\"Dnls_mum\"]
So frankly, we can make the best of the situation and it is up to us parents to decide how we want our child to grow up
I meant for the gifted to be taught this way, and hence no need for a selected group called G-E-P. Not put them apart and treat them like some aliens, or sometimes, like gods. GEP kids don't want to be gods, they want to be just a kid, and still get to learn. Mainstream kids also have the same access. When they are good, they also get access, whether they are gifted, or high ability, as long as they can cope, they get a chance. That's what I believe enrichment for the gifted or anyone should be. Equal opportunity for all.
The secondary schools were enlightened long ago, how long more are they going to cling on at primary level? What purpose is there?
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