PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"

[Funz]

Dora1:

This will be my last point on this issue as I can't reveal more than I have. Suffice to say that proper evidence and feedback has been provided to the proper channels and I haven't seen anything concrete done to date. It would be very silly for me to post the full details of my experience on a public forum like KS parent. The intention of my post is not for anyone of you to do anything concrete, but to hold off slamming Singaporeans as xenophobic. Do be more understanding of the plight of some of your fellow singaporeans. Doesn't mean that if you have not seen it, it's not true.

I have not personally encountered what you have described but I have heard enough of it from some of my friends. But to say that the govt has not done anything about it is not entirely true. They have already tighten the quotas of employment passes. Levies for employing foreign workers are getting higher. Those trying to apply for PR or SC are finding that more are getting rejected.

Unfortunately, the effect of all these measures will not be felt immediately just as the effect of letting all these FTs into Singapore was not felt immediately either.

I am finding it harder to find staff and even trusted staff on S pass or E pass are not getting their passes renewed. My friends who are running their own businesses in various industries are facing the same issues. Those who work in the HR line are also finding it tougher and tougher to fill positions.

Ok, correction, the effects can be felt immediately but not by the general public. It is very keenly felt by the local SMEs.

[Lilac66]

Dora1:

Edureach:

The purpose of receiving tertiary education is for the training of minds in general and for professional degrees is necessary to enter a choice professions ie doctors, dentists,lawyers. accountants, engineers, pharmacists, scientists etc. Just ask if a law clerk can be called to the Bar without a recognised degree? Can a general hospital worker be a doctor without passing medical exam? Is it possible to to be a certifield accountant without being accountant trained? The list is long so one should not just generalise for the sake of convenience. Think for a moment can a technician with 30 yrs experience be eligible to register as a practising engineer as oppossed to someone with only few yrs of practical experience but duly qualified?


Why poly grads want to hve a shot at unis? It opens door otherwise not possible in terms of longterm career development. Take for example why business schools rank point is relatively high: The top grad from NUS/NTU/SMU commands a starting pay of $10,000/mth. Imagine if these chaps could make alot of money for the banks as investment bankers, private bankers, relationship managers or instituion traders, the monthly salary woukd enable them to book a unit at district 9/10/11 at a relatively young age. So our youth are pursuing a dream which is good. Rich is good, prosperity is better. Of course we would expect these high fliers to contribute more to our society. That way their souls prosper even as they continue to accumulate wealth. Is a dream many hve!

I believe when one writes, its impt to write from the heart not just out of popularity.

Is it possible for, say 75% of the population to be uni grads and be in the jobs that you mentioned? Bankers, doctors, lawyers all earn a very high pay. But can a society function with everyone in these positions? Are all kids cut out to be one of the prestigious profession that you listed? How can a society function with no bus drivers, plumbers, electricians, cooks, tailors, technicians, mechanics? If plumbers, electricians and technicians can earn the same as the bankers, I am sure ITE would be hotter than NYPS!

Earn the same,no way lah.. at least not in the near future. But Lim Chong Yah's proposal to increase the min wage for the lower end jobs should help tackle the income inequality somewhat, but then it's being shot down as being risky.

However from the perspective of an employer, esp SMEs, it's really not an approach they'll welcome. Can understand also.


ps:after my post, realised Funz also touched on issues faced by SMEs.

[Dora1]

Funz:

Dora1:

This will be my last point on this issue as I can't reveal more than I have. Suffice to say that proper evidence and feedback has been provided to the proper channels and I haven't seen anything concrete done to date. It would be very silly for me to post the full details of my experience on a public forum like KS parent. The intention of my post is not for anyone of you to do anything concrete, but to hold off slamming Singaporeans as xenophobic. Do be more understanding of the plight of some of your fellow singaporeans. Doesn't mean that if you have not seen it, it's not true.

I have not personally encountered what you have described but I have heard enough of it from some of my friends. But to say that the govt has not done anything about it is not entirely true. They have already tighten the quotas of employment passes. Levies for employing foreign workers are getting higher. Those trying to apply for PR or SC are finding that more are getting rejected.

Unfortunately, the effect of all these measures will not be felt immediately just as the effect of letting all these FTs into Singapore was not felt immediately either.

I am finding it harder to find staff and even trusted staff on S pass or E pass are not getting their passes renewed. My friends who are running their own businesses in various industries are facing the same issues. Those who work in the HR line are also finding it tougher and tougher to fill positions.

Ok, correction, the effects can be felt immediately but not by the general public. It is very keenly felt by the local SMEs.

I think there were some reports in the papers. Actually, my personal experience were with the PRs and not the S or EP holders. Personally I find that the S and EP holders actually do respect SCs in general. It was the PRs that have that sense of entitlement, and they think that nothing can be done to them. And I actually have no issue with the gov giving S or WP to positions where SCs don't want to do.... When they announced that they are reducing the WP and S Pass quotas, I personally felt they were barking up the wrong tree.... :scratchhead: Maybe the SMEs can reflect this to the gov?

[Dora1]

Lilac66:

Dora1:

[quote=\"Edureach\"]The purpose of receiving tertiary education is for the training of minds in general and for professional degrees is necessary to enter a choice professions ie doctors, dentists,lawyers. accountants, engineers, pharmacists, scientists etc. Just ask if a law clerk can be called to the Bar without a recognised degree? Can a general hospital worker be a doctor without passing medical exam? Is it possible to to be a certifield accountant without being accountant trained? The list is long so one should not just generalise for the sake of convenience. Think for a moment can a technician with 30 yrs experience be eligible to register as a practising engineer as oppossed to someone with only few yrs of practical experience but duly qualified?


Why poly grads want to hve a shot at unis? It opens door otherwise not possible in terms of longterm career development. Take for example why business schools rank point is relatively high: The top grad from NUS/NTU/SMU commands a starting pay of $10,000/mth. Imagine if these chaps could make alot of money for the banks as investment bankers, private bankers, relationship managers or instituion traders, the monthly salary woukd enable them to book a unit at district 9/10/11 at a relatively young age. So our youth are pursuing a dream which is good. Rich is good, prosperity is better. Of course we would expect these high fliers to contribute more to our society. That way their souls prosper even as they continue to accumulate wealth. Is a dream many hve!

I believe when one writes, its impt to write from the heart not just out of popularity.

Is it possible for, say 75% of the population to be uni grads and be in the jobs that you mentioned? Bankers, doctors, lawyers all earn a very high pay. But can a society function with everyone in these positions? Are all kids cut out to be one of the prestigious profession that you listed? How can a society function with no bus drivers, plumbers, electricians, cooks, tailors, technicians, mechanics? If plumbers, electricians and technicians can earn the same as the bankers, I am sure ITE would be hotter than NYPS!

Earn the same,no way lah.. at least not in the near future. But Lim Chong Yah's proposal to increase the min wage for the lower end jobs should help tackle the income inequality somewhat, but then it's being shot down as being risky.

However from the perspective of an employer, esp SMEs, it's really not an approach they'll welcome. Can understand also.


ps:after my post, realised Funz also touched on issues faced by SMEs. [/quote]That sentence is meant to poke fun at Edureach lah. Of course I know there's no way these profession can pay the same as bankers. But Edureach said everyone wants to enter Uni is for training the mind. But if one day a mechanic or plumber earns the same as a banker, and grads are out of jobs, you can be sure that ITE is the next hot place, and everyone will shun Unis! C'mon we are practical people, and I am not ashamed to admit it!

[Fairy]

Funz:

Dora1:

This will be my last point on this issue as I can't reveal more than I have. Suffice to say that proper evidence and feedback has been provided to the proper channels and I haven't seen anything concrete done to date. It would be very silly for me to post the full details of my experience on a public forum like KS parent. The intention of my post is not for anyone of you to do anything concrete, but to hold off slamming Singaporeans as xenophobic. Do be more understanding of the plight of some of your fellow singaporeans. Doesn't mean that if you have not seen it, it's not true.

I have not personally encountered what you have described but I have heard enough of it from some of my friends. But to say that the govt has not done anything about it is not entirely true. They have already tighten the quotas of employment passes. Levies for employing foreign workers are getting higher. Those trying to apply for PR or SC are finding that more are getting rejected.

Unfortunately, the effect of all these measures will not be felt immediately just as the effect of letting all these FTs into Singapore was not felt immediately either.

I am finding it harder to find staff and even trusted staff on S pass or E pass are not getting their passes renewed. My friends who are running their own businesses in various industries are facing the same issues. Those who work in the HR line are also finding it tougher and tougher to fill positions.

Ok, correction, the effects can be felt immediately but not by the general public. It is very keenly felt by the local SMEs.

Hi, any idea what's the difference between S & E pass holders and P1 & P2 pass holders?

Under Singapore's Income Tax Act Section 14L, companies can claim further tax deductions for expenses incurred in the relocation & recruitment of overseas talent issued with P1 & P2 employment passes. Qualifying expenses include recruitment agent fee, relocation charges, temporary accomodation (up to 1 month) for FT, spouse & up to 2 children, expenses incurred in flying candidate for interviews & etc, subject to a cap per FT. :roll:

To me, this is really an incentive and encouragement for companies to hire Foreign Talents by our government!

'Actions', in the form of policies, speaks louder than words.

Someone I know lamented that at her organisation which is the back office of a foreign financial institution, the perms are make up of foreigners while Singaporeans are hired on contact terms! :mad:

[Lilac66]

Dora1:

That sentence is meant to poke fun at Edureach lah.

Ah.. I see.

[Fairy]

Dora1:

I think there were some reports in the papers. Actually, my personal experience were with the PRs and not the S or EP holders. Personally I find that the S and EP holders actually do respect SCs in general. It was the PRs that have that sense of entitlement, and they think that nothing can be done to them. And I actually have no issue with the gov giving S or WP to positions where SCs don't want to do.... When they announced that they are reducing the WP and S Pass quotas, I personally felt they were barking up the wrong tree.... :scratchhead: Maybe the SMEs can reflect this to the gov?

I am surrounded by PRs at my workplace, holding positions from junior to senior. Many owned resale HDB flats which they rented out while staying in private estate or even in JB. A few left Singapore to work back home but continue to rent out their HDB flat. A pregnant colleague who is a Singapore PR also went back to her own country to deliver her baby instead of delivering here. That speaks a lot about their commitment towards SG.

[pirate]

Ah, I see. The complaint is against Malaysian PRs. I seriously doubt the government is going to be doing a lot about that. If you understand our economy and history, you will appreciate why.

[mamago]

Fairy:

Dora1:

I think there were some reports in the papers. Actually, my personal experience were with the PRs and not the S or EP holders. Personally I find that the S and EP holders actually do respect SCs in general. It was the PRs that have that sense of entitlement, and they think that nothing can be done to them. And I actually have no issue with the gov giving S or WP to positions where SCs don't want to do.... When they announced that they are reducing the WP and S Pass quotas, I personally felt they were barking up the wrong tree.... :scratchhead: Maybe the SMEs can reflect this to the gov?

I am surrounded by PRs at my workplace, holding positions from junior to senior. Many owned resale HDB flats which they rented out while staying in private estate or even in JB. A few left Singapore to work back home but continue to rent out their HDB flat. A pregnant colleague who is a Singapore PR also went back to her own country to deliver her baby instead of delivering here. That speaks a lot about their commitment towards SG.

Singapore PR Re-entry Permit is not infinite, it can be renewed with condition every 5year, in some cases, yearly.

[verykiasu2010]

mamago:

Fairy:

[quote=\"Dora1\"]

I think there were some reports in the papers. Actually, my personal experience were with the PRs and not the S or EP holders. Personally I find that the S and EP holders actually do respect SCs in general. It was the PRs that have that sense of entitlement, and they think that nothing can be done to them. And I actually have no issue with the gov giving S or WP to positions where SCs don't want to do.... When they announced that they are reducing the WP and S Pass quotas, I personally felt they were barking up the wrong tree.... :scratchhead: Maybe the SMEs can reflect this to the gov?

I am surrounded by PRs at my workplace, holding positions from junior to senior. Many owned resale HDB flats which they rented out while staying in private estate or even in JB. A few left Singapore to work back home but continue to rent out their HDB flat. A pregnant colleague who is a Singapore PR also went back to her own country to deliver her baby instead of delivering here. That speaks a lot about their commitment towards SG.

Singapore PR Re-entry Permit is not infinite, it can be renewed with condition every 5year, in some cases, yearly.[/quote]yes, as much as uninformed SC would like to imagine that PR is permanent, SG gov't also very tricky - no permanent PR one, renewable every 5 years subject to conditions.

long before the recent unhappiness over PRs, I also have staff whose PRs were not renewed for various reasons - even when they are HQ staff in S'pore