PM Asks "What kind of people do we want to be?"
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WeiHan:
two wrongs do not make a rightOk...xenophobia is bad...
But what if a person (and family) survival is threaten by the badly planned immigration policy? Is it wrong for him to vent his anger at the \"foreigner\" that he perceived to have invaded his livelihood.
Is like that. Is easy for us to say that stealing can never be right. But how about a person who is at the verge of starvation to death? Is he wrong for stealing a loaf of bread in a shop so that he will, at least, live on?
The government has planned badly and worse still, it was done without much transparency. Now now, some people who has been too aggressive are being accused for bigotry and are expected to sit down civilly to \"resolve\" the issue. If not because of the more violent reaction, I think the government will not even take note. -
verykiasu2010:
There is no simple right and wrong if survival is at stake.An example, violence is generally consider bad but many atrocious regimes in history have to be replaced using violence. There is no choice and too many people lives were at stake.
two wrongs do not make a rightWeiHan:
Ok...xenophobia is bad...
But what if a person (and family) survival is threaten by the badly planned immigration policy? Is it wrong for him to vent his anger at the \"foreigner\" that he perceived to have invaded his livelihood.
Is like that. Is easy for us to say that stealing can never be right. But how about a person who is at the verge of starvation to death? Is he wrong for stealing a loaf of bread in a shop so that he will, at least, live on?
The government has planned badly and worse still, it was done without much transparency. Now now, some people who has been too aggressive are being accused for bigotry and are expected to sit down civilly to \"resolve\" the issue. If not because of the more violent reaction, I think the government will not even take note.
I never hear anything from the national rally about how to reduce income gap. It is lopsided and didn't address one of the most hot button issue. -
verykiasu2010:
:xedfingers:
two wrongs do not make a rightWeiHan:
Ok...xenophobia is bad...
But what if a person (and family) survival is threaten by the badly planned immigration policy? Is it wrong for him to vent his anger at the \"foreigner\" that he perceived to have invaded his livelihood.
Is like that. Is easy for us to say that stealing can never be right. But how about a person who is at the verge of starvation to death? Is he wrong for stealing a loaf of bread in a shop so that he will, at least, live on?
The government has planned badly and worse still, it was done without much transparency. Now now, some people who has been too aggressive are being accused for bigotry and are expected to sit down civilly to \"resolve\" the issue. If not because of the more violent reaction, I think the government will not even take note.
:goodpost: -
verykiasu2010:
Your first part is easy to understand. Solve the \"inadequate\" workforce of today.
that is to solve the immediaate lack of working adults today for a start (and they don't need to be citizens), the economy has grown over the last 30 years but number of citizens working adults have not grown proportionatelyWeiHan:
Can somebody clarify?
How does taking in mostly adult immigrants today help to solve the lack of working adults in the future (due to low birth rate today)? Wouldn't it just worsen the greying population problem in the future?
As for sidelining of SCs in certain industries, many stories have been told in this website.
http://www.transitioning.org/
Singaporeans aren't xenophobic. I think the accusation is off the mark. I think is more like the government is making the first move to accuse for the bad planning that they have caused.
stop taking in adult immigrants now plus yet to increase birth rate will accelerate the greying population and the economic burden on the then working adults will multiply. even national defence will suffer
the children of today will be burden with more than their fair share of social / economic burden
But how does taking in adult immigration solve the greying population of tomorrow? You didn't answer. Imigrants have low fertility rate also after they migrate to Singapore. -
WeiHan:
Your first part is easy to understand. Solve the \"inadequate\" workforce of today.
that is to solve the immediaate lack of working adults today for a start (and they don't need to be citizens), the economy has grown over the last 30 years but number of citizens working adults have not grown proportionatelyverykiasu2010:
[quote=\"WeiHan\"]Can somebody clarify?
How does taking in mostly adult immigrants today help to solve the lack of working adults in the future (due to low birth rate today)? Wouldn't it just worsen the greying population problem in the future?
As for sidelining of SCs in certain industries, many stories have been told in this website.
http://www.transitioning.org/
Singaporeans aren't xenophobic. I think the accusation is off the mark. I think is more like the government is making the first move to accuse for the bad planning that they have caused.
stop taking in adult immigrants now plus yet to increase birth rate will accelerate the greying population and the economic burden on the then working adults will multiply. even national defence will suffer
the children of today will be burden with more than their fair share of social / economic burden
But how does taking in adult immigration solve the greying population of tomorrow? You didn't answer. Imigrants have low fertility rate also after they migrate to Singapore.[/quote]you mean local born grown up as adults won't age ?
you can't stop people from aging; and a larger pool of working adults producing a larger pool of the next generation will go a long way to support the greying population. we need more young people to support the aged, not less, and taking in adult immigrants now help to increase the pool of new working adults in the future to support the future silver generation
and don't forget, at least 1.2 million of the present population are temporary population, they won't be in SG any longer as soon as their work passes are not renewed, including your domestic helpers
low fertility rate is not unique to Singaporeans or new immigrants. it is the \"feature\" of any advanced economy and well educated people who value more on personal freedom than raising a family -
Busymom:
Really?verykiasu2010:
it dropped momentarily, if Busymom want to see, must keep watch lah
Chey, wasted... :roll:
But hor, I could have asked for free cashwash in boxers, remember? :evil:
now waiting for that \"gentleman\" to own up.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Psssssssssst Busymom,
You wait long long hor :evil:
That gentleman is very good at :siam:
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WeiHan:
As far as I can tell, the most shrill xenophobic voices online do not come from people whose \"survival is threaten by the badly planned immigration policy.\" The ones most impacted are the blue collar workers like bus drivers, nurses, cleaners, waiters etc. I don't see people clamouring for the government to clamp down on blue collar foreign workers.Ok...xenophobia is bad...
But what if a person (and family) survival is threaten by the badly planned immigration policy? Is it wrong for him to vent his anger at the \"foreigner\" that he perceived to have invaded his livelihood.
On the contrary, the xenophobic voices come primarily from those in areas like IT, banking and admin - white collar workers in aircon offices. I have always been of the view that most of these office jobs can be outsourced overseas with a good corporate broadband link, and now with cloud computing...
So, guess what? Unless your job involves dealing directly with customers in Singapore (eg. private bankers, doctors, waiters) or physical work that must be done in Singapore (eg. bus drivers, cleaners, garbage collectors) or both (eg. nurses), the foreigner will threaten your survival, whether he is working in Singapore, Mumbai, Shanghai, Manila or JB. Welcome to the 21st century. Adapt and evolve or die.
As for why our government keep depressing blue collar wages by importing blue collar workers to do work that must be physically done in Singapore, I have no idea. -
pirate:
As for why our government keep depressing blue collar wages by importing blue collar workers to do work that must be physically done in Singapore, I have no idea.
If donch cut blue collar, then cut white collar meh??!! -
pirate:
the government does not purposely depress the blue collar wages
As for why our government keep depressing blue collar wages by importing blue collar workers to do work that must be physically done in Singapore, I have no idea.
the government does not import blue collar workers
it is the businesses who lobby the government to allow importation of foreign workers in order to continue the business / services, else close shop
How many singaporeans are willing to work as construction workers, grass cutters, rubbish truck attendants, bus drivers, truck drivers for construction sites, MRT tunnel excavators, electricians, aircon fitters, brick layers, tilers, restaurent waiters/waitresses, cleaners at hawkers centres, food courts, cooks, etc ?
Every singaporean aspires to be office workers in aircon comfort
So if a business has to bring in such workers as listed above, they will pay only what is needed to bring such workers here and nothing more. So indirectly the few singaporeans who work in such positions by default, not by choice (because they can't find any other job), got impacted because the foreign blue workers cost less.
So we have smart Lim Chong Yah proposing to double their pay -- will it work ? it will kill business in no time unless you and me are prepared to pay $10 for a plate of chicken rice or char kuay teow in hawker centre, or $3 for a cup of soya bean milk
People already cow father cow mother when transport fare is raised by $0.10 and you expect people to accept $10 chicken rice at hawker centre ?
We can increase pay for blue collar workers to make it attractive for local to take such jobs provide you and me are willing to pay for it. If I am running a business, I would jolly well take the local workers who cost more than a foreigner who cost less - provided the customers are willing to pay for it. Don't expect me to subsidise the customers. It is more difficult for local workers to run away after creating problems than a foreigner
p.s. just riding on your post to say something, but not directed at you hor -
verykiasu2010:
People already cow father cow mother when transport fare is raised by $0.10 and you expect people to accept $10 chicken rice at hawker centre ?
Let them cry father cry mother or learn to make their own kopi. Businesses will adapt so long as their competitors are not allowed to cheat.
There is no economic reason for blue collar workers to have to subsidize white collar workers. No reason why the poorest amongst us should subsidize the middle class just so the latter can have their cheap kopi-O and chicken rice. Why should anyone want to work as construction workers, grass cutters, rubbish truck attendants, bus drivers, truck drivers for construction sites, MRT tunnel excavators, electricians, aircon fitters, brick layers, tilers, restaurent waiters/waitresses, cleaners at hawkers centres, food courts, cooks, etc when those jobs involve subsidizing somebody else to sit in an aircon office? Who wants to be paid half of what their work is worth just so somebody else can have cheap kopi?
What kind of people do I want to be? I want Singaporeans to be a people that does not expect people who do hard, honest work that nobody else wants to do, to also have to subsidize people in cushy aircon offices. That's what I want. Until we do that, we will NEVER be a resilient people.
Think of it as... part of total defence. Can't have an army full of pen pushers.
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