How to tell if a child is gifted?
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Mychildren:
[/quote]It is interesting that many parents share the same encounter with their little ones not wanting to do things repeatedly. I am not sure why, but ALL my five kids are like that too. Thing is, most kids learn to be bored in school, any school and the more gifted or the faster a kid learns concept, the more bored he is.
My 2nd DS is like those highlighted in blue. My concern is how to deal with him? He can scored very high marks or can even near to fail for the same subject. So its kind of scared me. Don't really know how to handle him sometimes and his teacher always complain he cannot sit properly in class. In Singapore, the system is that you need to pass or get good marks so I kind of worried for him. :sick:linden2000:
[quote=\"Chenonceau\"]
Agree. They do not like drilling and can get very poor grades.
Especially in lower primary, when a lot of the focus is on handwriting and punctuation, they can get frustrated when many marks are deducted for punctuation mistakes or bad handwriting.
For Maths, they may be able to figure out the answers in their head but do not write down the workings or jump steps and hence, lose many marks though they get the final answers right. Similarly for Science, they may have the vast knowledge in their heads but when answering the questions do not write down the key words which the markers look out for and so still do not get the marks.
And for some gifted children, because they are so used to acquiring knowledge fast when they are younger, may give up more easily when stumped by difficult material when they are older. Some gifted children are underachievers.
I read an article once. Have you watched a movie in slow motion? It is ok if that lasts for just a few seconds, but imagine watching the whole movie in slow motion, then anyone of us will get bored, tired and unlisted. Now, imagine if you have a kid who simply cannot catch... the whole movie is like people talking like chipmunks. Schools are like this for most kids, either in slow motion, or everyone talking like chipmunks.
On the way from a uni class yesterday, I asked my 12 year old if he preferred the primary school he is attending or the university courses he attends. He pondered for a while and said that if he had to choose, then he'd prefer the primary school graduating class. He could buy rubbish, talk rots, and have fun during recess. In the uni, he only listens to lectures, do the tutorials and then go home. There's nothing to play. So, I asked if he would rather not go to uni. He said he wanted to go, because in his primary school class, his teacher puts up a question and he or one other kid will get the answer within seconds, but they will have to wait for the rest to finish it, wait for teacher to explain it, which sometimes takes another 30 minutes. He will see all the rest of the questions on the board and he would have solved all of them in 10 minutes, but the lesson lasts 40 minutes and they would have to do the homework. The good thing is, he just pencils down everything at the end of the class, and his homework time is less than 10 minutes.
He said he felt bad some of them are struggling, even though this is a classroom of gifted mathematics and at 12, they are already doing trigonometry and logorithms, which are covered only in Sec 3 or so in most sec schools in Singapore. But you see, he has to learn to slow down, tame his 'norms', so that he can blend in and be accepted during recess and PE.
In the uni, he is given all the topics at one go. When the lecturer is at chapter1.4, he is already reading 2.5. By the end of mid-term, he is already done with the whole year's work. And the beauty is, it is OK. The lecturer knows him and allows him to move at his own pace. He is allowed to contribute his own thoughts and weird ways of solving questions, (Without working) and explain them. They are never marked wrong, as long as they are right. Now here's the problem only in Singapore: once upon a time (when I was young), as long as you got the right answers, you got the marks, and if your answers were wrong, they would give you part marks for steps. Now, even if you get the answers right, and the steps are not shown, marks are deducted. I had thought that maybe my understanding got messed up along the way. Fortunately, having spoken to a few Math professors locally and overseas, I have confirmed that. Yes, steps are important, but only as important as it is to show your understanding, and how you get your answer. If you can get there within 2 steps and others 5, then you should never be penalized, as long as your 2 steps are logical and comprehensible.
You see, forcing a child to conform to a certain way of doing things is taking away his need to express his thoughts, even in math. We can all solve the question in multiple ways. So, yes, I do have a problem of us insisting giving marks for steps. Some people have ways to jump, especially kids, and they should never be penalized, especially if the adult does not understand. Adults are taught how to solve problems, kids use their intuition.. O well, I can dwell on this forever and will never win this argument with school teachers, so be it... :roll:
I guess, we are fortunate to find a balance. A lot of gifted kids would have lost their enthusiasm and joy of learning in the boring process. We are fortunate that DS managed to earn enough credentials and credibility for professors to listen to his ways of solving problems. Unfortunately, for every one of him, many thousands of children would have their creativity killed. :sad: I hope that you will find ways to make the boring process interesting for the child, and find a sweet balance somewhere. For us, it was a long, long journey, and I am not even sure we have already landed anywhere...
As for drilling... only for exams, and only for 10-30 minutes a day, if I don't want a jumping, temper throwing child and tons of reasoning from him why he need not do them as he has already mastered those things. But he has done well for tests, so why drill? I don't need 100 marks, and he really already knows his work. Besides, if I drill him, he will lose interest altogether and it will take so much more effort to get that back. -
Perhaps one of the best ways to stop complaining of repetitive is to make them learn a total NEW thing, such as filling up Pascal’s Triangle, create own number pattern, working out probability rate in that triangle, doing Pythagoras’s theorem, or even doing binomial expansion…I might be crazy and I don’t know if age has overtaken my intelligence or my brain’s function has been degenerating of late, BUT what I certainly notice is my daughter is capable of what I apprehend but not so for me in reverse…perhaps I have lost my mine!? Who knows? This is how I stop her from whining/complaining repetitive.
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venuschan:
Perhaps one of the best ways to stop complaining of repetitive is to make them learn a total NEW thing, such as filling up Pascal's Triangle, create own number pattern, working out probability rate in that triangle, doing Pythagoras's theorem, or even doing binomial expansion....I might be crazy and I don't know if age has overtaken my intelligence or my brain's function has been degenerating of late, BUT what I certainly notice is my daughter is capable of what I apprehend but not so for me in reverse...perhaps I have lost my mine!? Who knows? This is how I stop her from whining/complaining repetitive.
Actually this makes sense and the children seem to enjoy this. I find putting the kids in a 'relax' school or 'relax' class helps a lot. They are not competitive and homework is minimal. When they are in school, they have lots of fun with friends and playing (and I can have my selfish time at home
). When they come home, since they have no homework, we can spend a lot of time doing more interesting things.
There are some very interesting puzzles that really stretches the mind, and you have named a few. Recently, my 9 year old was introduced Fibonacci numbers in school, so I did some research on the Internet (that's how I spend my selfish time) and worked on interesting Fibonacci puzzles with him. He helped me solve them, which is very difficult. Of course he couldn't solve them... those are like university level work, but he gave me lots of ideas and we worked out some interesting identities and proof. I didn't see things he did. So he contributed. We managed to prove this using triangles and trapeziums, Pythagoras Theorem and Heron's formula:![](\"http://www.freewebs.com/caseychong/8fac2201133db8fa7dd249a2e721376c.png\")
http://www.freewebs.com/caseychong/8fac2201133db8fa7dd249a2e721376c.png\">
Heh heh.... so cheem (it is Cassini's Identity)
In the university, we use more sophisticated tools (e.g. Mathematical Induction) to prove this, but at home, both of us used much easier concepts (use paper to cut triangles and trapeziums) to prove the same thing. Hard to imagine we got there, but we did! It is the mental journey we enjoyed for the afternoon, and it made him feel good contributing to the solution, he ended up saying, \"I love Math!\" something he dislikes. So I am happy I 'tricked' him to do math in an unconventional way, (versus rote learning, dividing, learning the multiplication table that he has to do in class mundanely) and made him see that Math is actually very fun! Sadly, for some of my older kids, though they did very well for Math when they were young, they hated the rote learning and by 15, their passion and interest ran out and they chose some other disciplines for uni. For the younger two kids, I chose an alternative path, teaching them fun things and discover math - to very good effects. Unfortunately, there is no such pedagogy out there, so I devised quite a few of them. I didn't want them to dislike anything. This discovery and journey has been fun and rewarding for myself, too. :imcool:
I thought this son was the slowest among my children so I went slow on everything with him. For instance, other kids could understand conditional statements and probability at six, but he was just confused as he could hardly read. Interestingly, he caught on the fastest and seems to have surpassed all the older kids at his age. I am beginning to think that perhaps even late bloomers (he started to talk, walk and read much later than other kids) have a great chance. I could not do anything with him like I did with other children because I was too busy, and he simply did not have the skills. Interestingly, once he reached seven, he SUDDENLY seems to comprehend everything at an exponential rate, and overtake all the older ones, and is able to do things they could not do at his age. I am also wondering if it is because he is so relaxed in school now and he is no longer anxious that he is able to learn.
So, yes, interesting. Perhaps it is really hard to tell if a child is gifted at all at a very young age. Especially those who refuse to speak or walk - like Einstein. Who's to know? As parents, we just keep believing and keep trying and keep 'trial and error'-ing.
Parents are always the best teachers. 
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But 2ppaamm, I believe what’s so called late boomer. I have 2 friends, one was doing very badly during his primary time, never in the top, looked clumsy, he would never apperaed to you as a smart boy back then if you met someone like that, but somehow suddenly when just turned 15, elevated to top class as if topdown by helicopters and since then he actually top in our class …a bit like 神仙, but he is still not the excellent one, the excellent one I want to mention is worse, I knew him because he was my neighbor, he was in my sister’s class, sister said his language skill was "poor"?, be it mandarine ( his mother tongue) or bahasa melayu and even English, he always stammered/ hesitated when he talked, he drew circles in the class, or daydreaming even at age of 18/19, however sister said that was never true for ALL his science subjects, he did excellent and studied minimal in math, physics and especially chemistry, and he studied real hard in language subjects ( bc language paper was a killing paper to him) … also he was one of the State/ national representative in qualified chess player our time… the thing here is he got accepted to NUS and not to UM ( Malayan University) and got his doctorate done ( back then I was thinking if what my sister said was true then how would he get his thesis done) and now he is a professor in NUS. …so I know such things as late boomer and believe in it deeply. That’s why when one of my friend’s son was accepted into the so called GEP program in Singapore 10 years ago I remembered I asked her why was the selection at such young age, and I actually raised the question why so early to segregate, bc in person, I feel selection at early age is not always a right move… but my friend was elated bc that means her son’s future is guaranteed ( this was what told by my this cute friend). Of course I don’t buy the idea of "guarantee" in life as 条条大路通罗马啦 i.e. all roads lead to Rome and how are we to say succeed in life only with one route? It doesnt make sense. ( She said she "wished" her kid to be Singapore’s Parlimentarian and by becoming so that she was sure his future would be certainly guaranteed and chances for gifted child or GEP kid to apply and get in there was always higher and certain!? and this was what she believed in)…( I’m also waiting for proof here). The thing is after going through gifted assessment and involved in GHF in US, realize gifted assessment always comes in 2 sections, one is in cognitive, the other is academic achievement, guess Singapore government perhaps focus more on the academic achievement test, which doesnt actually carry scores in IQ test, in reality, it is the cognitive test that counts the child’s fluid of intellegence and not the other. The problem with gifted child is even though they are born gifted but too they may not be high achiever…some even appears clumsy…
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2ppaamm:
I love your sharing. It took me places I've never been.venuschan:
Perhaps one of the best ways to stop complaining of repetitive is to make them learn a total NEW thing, such as filling up Pascal's Triangle, create own number pattern, working out probability rate in that triangle, doing Pythagoras's theorem, or even doing binomial expansion....I might be crazy and I don't know if age has overtaken my intelligence or my brain's function has been degenerating of late, BUT what I certainly notice is my daughter is capable of what I apprehend but not so for me in reverse...perhaps I have lost my mine!? Who knows? This is how I stop her from whining/complaining repetitive.
Actually this makes sense and the children seem to enjoy this. I find putting the kids in a 'relax' school or 'relax' class helps a lot. They are not competitive and homework is minimal. When they are in school, they have lots of fun with friends and playing (and I can have my selfish time at home). When they come home, since they have no homework, we can spend a lot of time doing more interesting things.
There are some very interesting puzzles that really stretches the mind, and you have named a few. Recently, my 9 year old was introduced Fibonacci numbers in school, so I did some research on the Internet (that's how I spend my selfish time) and worked on interesting Fibonacci puzzles with him. He helped me solve them, which is very difficult. Of course he couldn't solve them... those are like university level work, but he gave me lots of ideas and we worked out some interesting identities and proof. I didn't see things he did. So he contributed. We managed to prove this using triangles and trapeziums, Pythagoras Theorem and Heron's formula:
Heh heh.... so cheem (it is Cassini's Identity)
In the university, we use more sophisticated tools (e.g. Mathematical Induction) to prove this, but at home, both of us used much easier concepts (use paper to cut triangles and trapeziums) to prove the same thing. Hard to imagine we got there, but we did! It is the mental journey we enjoyed for the afternoon, and it made him feel good contributing to the solution, he ended up saying, \"I love Math!\" something he dislikes. So I am happy I 'tricked' him to do math in an unconventional way, (versus rote learning, dividing, learning the multiplication table that he has to do in class mundanely) and made him see that Math is actually very fun! Sadly, for some of my older kids, though they did very well for Math when they were young, they hated the rote learning and by 15, their passion and interest ran out and they chose some other disciplines for uni. For the younger two kids, I chose an alternative path, teaching them fun things and discover math - to very good effects. Unfortunately, there is no such pedagogy out there, so I devised quite a few of them. I didn't want them to dislike anything. This discovery and journey has been fun and rewarding for myself, too. :imcool:
I thought this son was the slowest among my children so I went slow on everything with him. For instance, other kids could understand conditional statements and probability at six, but he was just confused as he could hardly read. Interestingly, he caught on the fastest and seems to have surpassed all the older kids at his age. I am beginning to think that perhaps even late bloomers (he started to talk, walk and read much later than other kids) have a great chance. I could not do anything with him like I did with other children because I was too busy, and he simply did not have the skills. Interestingly, once he reached seven, he SUDDENLY seems to comprehend everything at an exponential rate, and overtake all the older ones, and is able to do things they could not do at his age. I am also wondering if it is because he is so relaxed in school now and he is no longer anxious that he is able to learn.
So, yes, interesting. Perhaps it is really hard to tell if a child is gifted at all at a very young age. Especially those who refuse to speak or walk - like Einstein. Who's to know? As parents, we just keep believing and keep trying and keep 'trial and error'-ing. Parents are always the best teachers. -
venuschan:
But 2ppaamm, I believe what's so called late boomer. I have 2 friends, one was doing very badly during his primary time, never in the top, looked clumsy, he would never apperaed to you as a smart boy back then if you met someone like that, but somehow suddenly when just turned 15, elevated to top class as if topdown by helicopters and since then he actually top in our class ......a bit like 神仙, but he is still not the excellent one, the excellent one I want to mention is worse, I knew him because he was my neighbor, he was in my sister's class, sister said his language skill was \"poor\"?, be it mandarine ( his mother tongue) or bahasa melayu and even English, he always stammered/ hesitated when he talked, he drew circles in the class, or daydreaming even at age of 18/19, however sister said that was never true for ALL his science subjects, he did excellent and studied minimal in math, physics and especially chemistry, and he studied real hard in language subjects ( bc language paper was a killing paper to him) .... also he was one of the State/ national representative in qualified chess player our time..... the thing here is he got accepted to NUS and not to UM ( Malayan University) and got his doctorate done ( back then I was thinking if what my sister said was true then how would he get his thesis done) and now he is a professor in NUS. ....so I know such things as late boomer and believe in it deeply. That's why when one of my friend's son was accepted into the so called GEP program in Singapore 10 years ago I remembered I asked her why was the selection at such young age, and I actually raised the question why so early to segregate, back then I didn't have any issues bc I believe 条条大路通罗门(although myself is not in the system at all compared to all of you here in this kiasu.com). My friend was elated bc that means her son's future is guarateed ( this was what told by my this cute friend). After going through gifted assessment and involved in GHF in US, realize gifted assessment always comes in 2 sections, one is in cognitive, the other is academic achievement, guess Singapore government perhaps focus more on the academic achievement test, which doesnt actually carry marks in IQ test, in reality, it is the cognitive test that counts the child's fluid of intellegence and not the other. The problem with gifted child is even though they are born gifted but too they may not be high achiever...some appears clumsy...
What happened to the boy who went to GEP 10 years ago? KPO kpo a bit... -
The boy is in Junior College now. Sitting for A level next year. She told me his age, but can’t certainly say if he is 16/17/18.
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venuschan:
The boy is in Junior College now. Sitting for A level next year. She told me his age, but can't certainly say if he is 16/17/18.
So far, most GEP kids are ok, like most regular kids, but a handful of GEP children I met seem to have a bit of problem, drop out of (very good) university, abandon parent, gone to poly, become reclusive and lock himself in, one refuse to go to school and employ tutors instead. Very sad to see. Somehow, I think the smarter the child, the more endangered he is, and as parents, we have to spend with himm to make sure he is secured emotionally. When they are at 21 or 22, it is impossible to turn them around.
So, it is perfectly fine to be average.
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2ppaamm:
I lOve what u said. It's perfectly fine to be average.venuschan:
The boy is in Junior College now. Sitting for A level next year. She told me his age, but can't certainly say if he is 16/17/18.
So far, most GEP kids are ok, like most regular kids, but a handful of GEP children I met seem to have a bit of problem, drop out of (very good) university, abandon parent, gone to poly, become reclusive and lock himself in, one refuse to go to school and employ tutors instead. Very sad to see. Somehow, I think the smarter the child, the more endangered he is, and as parents, we have to spend with himm to make sure he is secured emotionally. When they are at 21 or 22, it is impossible to turn them around.
So, it is perfectly fine to be average. -
2ppaamm:
It is always important to remember that 'gifted' young children are in an asynchronous development state, some part of them are advanced and 'matured', but mentality and wisdom is still very much a child.venuschan:
The boy is in Junior College now. Sitting for A level next year. She told me his age, but can't certainly say if he is 16/17/18.
So far, most GEP kids are ok, like most regular kids, but a handful of GEP children I met seem to have a bit of problem, drop out of (very good) university, abandon parent, gone to poly, become reclusive and lock himself in, one refuse to go to school and employ tutors instead. Very sad to see. Somehow, I think the smarter the child, the more endangered he is, and as parents, we have to spend with himm to make sure he is secured emotionally. When they are at 21 or 22, it is impossible to turn them around.
So, it is perfectly fine to be average.
As much as we should help them be interested in developing their skills which they are gifted in, we must never forget that they are still a child, and are subject to the same feelings and thinking of children who cannot fully comprehend a world they have only just coming to experience.
And with a mind that can perhaps understand complex concepts and academic subjects, they may struggle even more to come to terms that they may not be able to easily comprehend certain things in life, and thus they are sometimes in a way, more vulnerable than 'average' kids.
As I mentioned in another post, for the lack of a better phrase, 'Gifted' children are children with special needs. The term 'gifted' and GEP have many times led to a wrong idea of what these children really need, really are.
Cheers.
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