MOE to scrap Banding for Secondary Schools
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Chenonceau:
Not weird, just interpret this part off a bit. What people are saying is that for policy changes to be effective, some amount of mindset change from parents is also required. Now whether parents want to complement it or not, MOE has no control right? So if this change fail....we cannot simply just say...wrong change so fail.... we are also part of the change.
:celebrate: Ok... so I am not weird then. You think same too? I saw a lot of discussion on how this won't help parents change mindset so I thought I was being nutsy again. -
slmkhoo:
Wow! What fortitude of character to stand firm against system incentives. Not everyone has that strength of character. No wonder she groomed a daughter like you.
My mother was a sec school principal in the 80s and 90s when the rankings and other competitive measures were being put into place. She was always very fed up by being put under pressure by those above, and even by her teachers and students' parents, to focus on improving the school's ranking. She would promote as many Normal stream students to Yr 5 to do 'O' levels as she could, even though that would pull down the school's ranking, because she knew that some of them would then be able to go on to Poly or get better jobs. She sometimes even recommended her best students to transfer to more challenging schools so that they had a chance to do even better. She never worried much about the ranking, but because of that wasn't regarded as a high-achieving principal. Luckily, she wasn't career-minded and didn't seek promotion, so she just did what she felt was best for her students. But she sometimes lost good teachers who transferred out because they felt that the school's ranking was low and wasn't going to get better, and that they didn't want to be there. She often compared what was done in her school (a lowly-ranked one) with what was done in the schools my brother and I attended (highly-ranked ones), and really, her school did much more for the weak students with none of the glory. So I'm glad to see the banding go as well. There is a lot more that should be done, but it's one step in the right direction.Chenonceau:
MOE's Work Plan Focuses on Looking After SCHOOLS, not Slapping Parents
His entire slew of measures this year is focused on helping schools. A website with parenting tips goes up too but really, the biggest thing that he is doing by removing banding is to tell all schools that they no longer need to outdo each other. They need to do the best they can... with the students they have, and grow their niches. Schools and teachers within can be proud of what they do because no one is gonna rank them and make them compete like gladiators.
Finally, he is moving to SAYANG his schools... he is moving to RESOURCE his teachers with good teaching materials in Stellar Upper Primary... I like that. SAYANG the schools without favor... just as if they are precious children of Singapore. Schools will naturally be able to help each other look after Teachers. Teachers will help each other look after our kids. In the end, by sayanging his schools... our kids benefit.
I like. Very much.
She needs to COME BACK and share her wisdom. -
ksi:
Dear... I don't understand. Can you explain your thought process a bit more step by step without skipping steps? I am rather intelligent but not THAT intelligent. I think I better ask before I misinterpret.
Not weird, just interpret this part off a bit. What people are saying is that for policy changes to be effective, some amount of mindset change from parents is also required. Now whether parents want to complement it or not, MOE has no control right? So if this change fail....we cannot simply just say...wrong change so fail.... we are also part of the change.Chenonceau:
:celebrate: Ok... so I am not weird then. You think same too? I saw a lot of discussion on how this won't help parents change mindset so I thought I was being nutsy again. -
nms1:
I think a decision has to be made on what kind of system we want to have. I went to school in the UK and was in a private school but my brothers both went to government schools. When my elder brother was in secondary school we lived in an area where there was no banding so your school was determined by where you lived. What happened? All the pupils were dragged down to the lowest common denominator rather than being pulled up. We moved house when he was going into the equivalent of JC and moved to an area where schools were streamed. He was put into one of the better schools and had a rude awakening as the standards were so much higher. He found it very hard to adjust and I still feel, many years later, that his years in the other school really prevented him from reaching his full potential academically.
Maybe the solution is not to band the schools but to band the children within them. Some schools can create a niche in certain areas but we could have children of all levels in all schools but streamed within their cohort. This may help to take off some of the PSLE pressure as we could then look at providing the opportunity to move between streams. Of course those \"brand name\" schools will still retain their prestige in the short term but maybe over the course of time the playing field can be levelled and pupils may choose a school because of the sports or CCAs offered, because of a strength in art, music or maths. There are numerous possibilities.
Maybe that will happen to SG's secondary school system, 20 years later? :? -
mamago:
Actually, that is quite possible. In all social phenomenon, there is something called parameter shift. In this day and age where competition is WAY hot, the measures announced today cool it down. But when the system cools down so much that it begins to stagnate, its time to step on the pedal again.nms1:
I think a decision has to be made on what kind of system we want to have. I went to school in the UK and was in a private school but my brothers both went to government schools. When my elder brother was in secondary school we lived in an area where there was no banding so your school was determined by where you lived. What happened? All the pupils were dragged down to the lowest common denominator rather than being pulled up. We moved house when he was going into the equivalent of JC and moved to an area where schools were streamed. He was put into one of the better schools and had a rude awakening as the standards were so much higher. He found it very hard to adjust and I still feel, many years later, that his years in the other school really prevented him from reaching his full potential academically.
Maybe the solution is not to band the schools but to band the children within them. Some schools can create a niche in certain areas but we could have children of all levels in all schools but streamed within their cohort. This may help to take off some of the PSLE pressure as we could then look at providing the opportunity to move between streams. Of course those \"brand name\" schools will still retain their prestige in the short term but maybe over the course of time the playing field can be levelled and pupils may choose a school because of the sports or CCAs offered, because of a strength in art, music or maths. There are numerous possibilities.
Maybe that will happen to SG's secondary school system, 20 years later? :?
To keep the car at a steady speed, your foot on the pedal gotta take off and put back, cannot be all the way down all the time. Your car speeds up and crashes. You can't keep your foot off forever too. Your car will stop.
No system feature will be useful or good forever. That might come a day to put banding back in. Constant fine-tuning is necessary. -
I support the scrapping too. Heard from friends of schools asking their students to drop subjects that they did not do well in case it affect the school overall ranking. (I suppose referring to S4 students). Wonder if it is a common practice :yikes:
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pinky:
I support the scrapping too. Heard from friends of schools asking their students to drop subjects that they did not do well in case it affect the school overall ranking. (I suppose referring to S4 students). Wonder if it is a common practice :yikes:
Yup yup! Don't stress the schools and the schools won't stress our kids. -
slmkhoo:
Kekekeke! Oh well then... we'll just hafta make do with you...
She's in her mid-70s and retired years ago! And she's always shunned any kind of publicity.Chenonceau:
Wow! What fortitude of character to stand firm against system incentives. Not everyone has that strength of character. No wonder she groomed a daughter like you.
She needs to COME BACK and share her wisdom.
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For me taking away does not change much, maybe it will for later generation. Getting into the sec school is based on meritocracy.
I know that some teachers from lower band schools focus in other aspects. Like helping the at risk kids and trying to motivate and let them succeed on their terms. I'm not sure if the teachers are feeling down becos their objectives are different, they are not trying to top the O level chart. I guess there are teachers who might prefer higher band school, becos not all are able to handle at risk kids or kids who need more scaffolding of information before they are able to grasp the concept or idea. For this group of teachers, they can transfer. I think the teachers from lower band are stressed if the P set unrealistics academic based KPIs :evil:
Even in lower band sec school, there are 1 or 2 top classes that will achieve very good O level results. I see the role of lower band school as a bit different becos the kids graduating from P6 have a spectrum of academic abilities.
I'm just voicing my views, no intention to \"fight\" with Chen. -
SAHM_TAN:
:snuggles: :snuggles: I normally ONLY get riled up when parents slam other parents for being kiasu... and proud... and incompetent. I think it's unkind and rings of a Parent Superiority Complex. I think all parents love their kids. They want the best for their kids. They might not do what is best but they do want to give their kids the best. I have visceral reaction towards comments that judge other parents for what the latter fail at. People don't know. That's all. We should not judge ignorance. We can educate ignorance. Help parents. Gently. Lovingly.For me taking away does not change much, maybe it will for later generation. Getting into the sec school is based on meritocracy.
I know that some teachers from lower band schools focus in other aspects. Like helping the at risk kids and trying to motivate and let them succeed on their terms. I'm not sure if the teachers are feeling down becos their objectives are different, they are not trying to top the O level chart. I guess there are teachers who might prefer higher band school, becos not all are able to handle at risk kids or kids who need more scaffolding of information before they are able to grasp the concept or idea. For this group of teachers, they can transfer. I think the teachers from lower band are stressed if the P set unrealistics academic based KPIs :evil:
Even in lower band sec school, there are 1 or 2 top classes that will achieve very good O level results. I see the role of lower band school as a bit different becos the kids graduating from P6 have a spectrum of academic abilities.
I'm just voicing my views, no intention to \"fight\" with Chen.
However bad parents are, when they come for motivation coaching after reading my book, they REALLY REALLY put in superhuman effort to be better parents because they LOVE their kids. It's so much more rewarding to work with parents than with managers. Managers don't try as hard. They don't move mountains to become better fast. Parents do. Partly because it's also THEIR money I guess (not the company's)... but largely because they really love their kids.
It makes me angry when parents slam other parents for their lack of parenting skills. I strongly feel we must honor the love all parents feel for their kids. You're not slamming parents so I have no visceral reaction.
I didn't see this issue from your perspective so it just adds richness to my mental picture of the issue.
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