Population woes
-
lim72:
Read this from transitioning.orghttp://www.tremeritus.com/2012/10/12/highly-qualified-risk-manager-who-earns-11k-replaced-by-ft/
我们是不是在这个时候还说这个人的刀不够利,所以只能怪他自己呢?
http://www.transitioning.org/2012/09/17/generation-y-lady-pmet-agrees-with-the-current-foreign-talent-influx/ -
xfx:
A good decision would be a balance of happiness, prosperity and progress. Now situation seems to be titled to prosperity and progress. I hoped that the policy makers will keep in mind our pledge.
They are always in conflict, and the ministers HAVE made their decisions. The problem is that people refuse to accept them.3Boys:
[quote=\"Dora1\"]
Of course there will be cases where the 2 are in conflict, then the million dollar ministers and the expensive senior civil servants have to give alternatives. Why else are they the highest paid politicians and senior civil servants in the world?
The only criteria for a GOOD decision I see being bandied around is that ministers make decisions that make people HAPPY. No consideration to logic, long term planning, saving for our future, just make sure the MRT is not crowded.
\"We the Citizens of Singapore,......so as to achieve Happiness, prosperity and progress for our nation.\"[/quote]If we even give so much as 1 scholarship to a foreigner, or if so much as 1 foreigner takes the place of 1 Singaporean, we will be unhappy and the news will be in TOC and TRE.
So much for balance. -
3Boys:
That is already happening with the supply of FTs.
But will those 'benefits' be enough in the absence of labour? What secret recipe do we have that cannot be copied by people with enough intellect and willpower? The answer is, None. It's happening ALREADY! People are doing as you say, leaving Singapore and setting up elsewhere. An example is that of Qantas. Does anyone realize how serious that was?
Please don't keep the heads in the sand.
So?
They do not shift bcoz of lack of FTs.
Don't say until the present of FT is the determining factor of whether they maintain their operations here. -
I just want to know.
Easy credit is known to cause bubbles. What measures will the government be taking to prevent a housing bubble? -
limlim:
That is already happening with the supply of FTs.3Boys:
But will those 'benefits' be enough in the absence of labour? What secret recipe do we have that cannot be copied by people with enough intellect and willpower? The answer is, None. It's happening ALREADY! People are doing as you say, leaving Singapore and setting up elsewhere. An example is that of Qantas. Does anyone realize how serious that was?
Please don't keep the heads in the sand.
So?
They do not shift bcoz of lack of FTs.
Don't say until the present of FT is the determining factor of whether they maintain their operations here.
I don't get you.
Some are moving away despite having availability of foreign labour, so we should exacerbate and chase the rest away by completely closing the supply?
What of our industries? Close shop? Decamp?
It will be worse without! -
WeiHan:
Good grief, have you not been reading the papers??I just want to know.
Easy credit is known to cause bubbles. What measures will the government be taking to prevent a housing bubble?
How many rounds of dampening measures have we had since 2010? Tharman just spoke about this last week! -
Good lord people! Educate yourself about the country you profess to love so much. Sheesh!
-
3Boys:
You've said it.. They move despite the availability of FT, so that is not the reason at all!
I don't get you.
Some are moving away despite having availability of foreign labour, so we should exacerbate and chase the rest away by completely closing the supply?
What of our industries? Close shop? Decamp?
It will be worse without!
Close the supply so what? it's not that there is NO supply of workforce. They can source from local workforce.
They should learn to be lean, and review their process so as to make do with less, but skilled workers, to run the operations. They can pay more to attract talented locals, w/o necessarily incurring excessive costs as they do with less workers.
It requires effort, of course. But it adds value to overall society.
In essence, if they move, there'll be 1001 reasons. They can get skilled workers in that whatever host country, why would they set up camp there and then import FTs? doesn't makes sense.. isn't it? Like LPPL.
But those that will not move, will try means and ways to get FT to lower the costs and make more profits, when FT is actually not crucial to their survival. -
limlim:
You don't understand limlim, running a business is multifactorial, to some labour is more important, to some, tax regime, innovation environment etc. so SOME industries are more sensitive to labour, some are more sensitive to others, but each of these play a part. If even despite a fairly relaxed labour regime (previously), some industries do not find Singapore attractive, what more if we tighten significantly? It's not all or nothing, just because some industries remain does not mean they are not sensitive to labour conditions. There may just be enough to tip things in Singapore's favor for the time being, but if labour conditions worsen, what makes you think some of those on the edge will not also decamp? Why don't you understand? It's not just saying, oh those companies that don't like it, just leave and good riddance. If you have to be based here, then you are held hostage and too bad, just swallow a business unfriendly labour so that our PMETs can kick up their heels and enjoy an easy life. Isn't growing and giving robustness to economy also important? Is it not just keeping our hostage industries but also attracting others that will lend heft and add value, even if they required mid-high skilled foreign labour that is not available here?
You've said it.. They move despite the availability of FT, so that is not the reason at all!3Boys:
I don't get you.
Some are moving away despite having availability of foreign labour, so we should exacerbate and chase the rest away by completely closing the supply?
What of our industries? Close shop? Decamp?
It will be worse without!
Close the supply so what? it's not that there is NO supply of workforce. They can source from local workforce.
They should learn to be lean, and review their process so as to make do with less, but skilled workers, to run the operations. They can pay more to attract talented locals, w/o necessarily incurring excessive costs as they do with less workers.
It requires effort, of course. But it adds value to overall society.
In essence, if they move, there'll be 1001 reasons. They can get skilled workers in that whatever host country, why would they set up camp there and then import FTs? doesn't makes sense.. isn't it? Like LPPL.
But those that will not move, will try means and ways to get FT to lower the costs and make more profits, when FT is actually not crucial to their survival.
The local workforce is NOT sufficiently large for us to have an economy to be competitively sized to play against the big boys. Imagine a domestic market of only 5 million, if we want MNCs they need to be significantly overseas for their markets. If we a producing for the world, do we not need a commensurate labour force? I'm not talking production line workers, I am talking PMETs like HR, IT, R&D, QA etc. in my experience, we DO NOT have enough of these people locally, I repeat, we DO NOT. It's not just about cost, Honest!
It's so frustrating trying to get this across to you. We DO NOT have enough of a talent base to have the economy the size we need to be secure against giants like Shanghai. Having such an economy is critical so that Singaporeans can continue to have high value employment.
In the final analysis it IS about the Singaporean, it always is! -
Contd…
Limlim, you take the approach that oh, ‘I don’t really care about the pain of the businesses, as long as local employment is protected’. You paint some kind of utopian picture that we can restrict the type of people that we allow our companies can hire, crank up their wages, and still be competitive on the world stage. Instead of speaking in vague terms like ‘be more lean in processes’, which even my 9 year old knows, show me that Singaporeans or the local companies have the wherewithal to execute on that, and not only execute, but be BETTER than our competitors. You speak so often of areas that we have an advantage, can you tell me your understanding of what they are and how tenuous they may be? Have you polled the companies to ask if they truly find these to be so superior to other places, to the extent that if we tighten up significantly on labour, that they would not just leave, and take ALL the jobs with them?
If not, then we have basically sentenced our industries to death. The MNCs will just up and leave (and you say good riddance), but the local SMEs are stuck here…in an inflexible, high cost labour environment that you propose. This is sticking our head sin the sand.
Businesses can be Singaporean too, they have rights also! How can Singaporeans prosper (and therefore be happy), if our businesses are weak and uncompetitive?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login