Higher Mother tongue

[jtoh]

jedamum:

Jtoh,

The same applies to IP IB? Is hmt a separate paper on top of mt or only one paper? Thanks. I find this the main pros of doing hcl as we are not aiming for sap school.

For IB, you must still do a 2nd lang in Year 5/6. Not so clear about the details so you might want to check on the ACS(I) thread.

For non-thru train O level schools, you have to take O level MT at Sec 3 before taking O level HMT at Sec 4. For thru-train schools, some do not require you to take O level MT at Sec 3 before sitting for O level HMT at Sec 4.

[jtoh]

from MOE website:


Pupils taking HMTL are eligible for the following incentives. These measures are put in place to give pupils more flexibility in the study of two languages and thus help to produce a greater number of effectively bilingual pupils in the future.

A pupil who passes both English and HMTL at the GCE ‘O’ Level Examination and who qualifies for admission to a Junior College (JC)/Millennia Institute (MI) will be given a concession of two points in his application to the JC/MI of his choice. Priority for admission to a JC/MI will be given to a pupil with English and HMTL who scores the same number of points as one with English and MTL.

For entry to a JC/MI, a grade of E8 in HMTL is considered to be equivalent to a grade of D7 in MTL. Therefore, a pupil who scores at least C6 in English Language and E8 in HMTL will be considered to have satisfied the language requirements for admission to a JC/MI.

A pupil, who obtains at least a grade of D7 in HMTL at the GCE ‘O’ Level Examination, will be considered to have satisfied the MTL requirement for admission to the National University of Singapore, Nanyang Technological University and Singapore Management University.

At the end of Secondary Three, a pupil studying HMTL will be allowed to sit for the GCE ‘O’ Level MTL paper. If the pupil is unable to cope with both English and HMTL, he will be allowed to switch to English and MTL.

[QueenB]

Thanks so much everyone! This is very useful information. I find that the HMT helps in my daughter’s overall ability for the language. But it also has been a lot of hardwork! Therefore, am just re-evaluating if all that hardwork is worth the effort in the longer term. Tks for all the tips. Anymore insights, please add on.

[Alarmchain]

jtoh:

from MOE website:

At the end of Secondary Three, a pupil studying HMTL will be allowed to sit for the GCE ‘O’ Level MTL paper. If the pupil is unable to cope with both English and HMTL, he will be allowed to switch to English and MTL.

Hope someone can help clarify the following:
a) Is it true that a child taking HCL does not seat for the normal chinese at \"O\" levels? (This is unlike primary school where a child taking HCL seats for both normal Chinese and HCL papers and as such gets grades for both subjects)

b) Though it is stated from the MOE website that a child is ALLOWED to sit for the \"O\" level normal chinese paper at end of Sec 3. however, how different is the syllabus between the two? Is it like in the primary school case, where the HCL is the normal chinese syllabus plus additional stuff? This is because I heard that HCL at secondary level does not examine the oral component (hence not taught) but the normal chinese does. Is this true?

c) Also, I wonder if there are any instances whereby the school offering HCL does not cater / prepare students to take the \"O\" level normal chinese paper at Sec 3 first, since the MOE stance is \"ALLOWED\", not \"MUST\". Does anyone know anything about this?

I have heard from some that because of the L1R5 requirement for JC admission (and I think some poly courses as well), they would rather the child not take HCL so that they can do better for normal chinese then struggle with HCL. That way, they can get a better grade for normal chinese to be used for the R5 component.

This is where my confusion lies. If the HCL is like in primary level, where the child takes both normal and HCL papers at \"O\" levels, then this issue of \"risk of lower grades in HCL\" affecting the L1R5 requirement won't be there right? That is assuming the child does take both papers at \"O\" levels and the schools do prepare the students for both. Hence the questions above.

Anyone can help clarify my confusion?

Thanks.

[jtoh]

My answers in blue.

Alarmchain:

Hope someone can help clarify the following:
a) Is it true that a child taking HCL does not seat for the normal chinese at \"O\" levels? (This is unlike primary school where a child taking HCL seats for both normal Chinese and HCL papers and as such gets grades for both subjects)

Not true. Students in O level schools generally take CL at O level in Sec 3, and if they do well in the CL exam, are allowed to take HCL at O level in Sec 4.

b) Though it is stated from the MOE website that a child is ALLOWED to sit for the \"O\" level normal chinese paper at end of Sec 3. however, how different is the syllabus between the two? Is it like in the primary school case, where the HCL is the normal chinese syllabus plus additional stuff? This is because I heard that HCL at secondary level does not examine the oral component (hence not taught) but the normal chinese does. Is this true?

Not sure of the differences, but format is different and there's no oral for HCL.

c) Also, I wonder if there are any instances whereby the school offering HCL does not cater / prepare students to take the \"O\" level normal chinese paper at Sec 3 first, since the MOE stance is \"ALLOWED\", not \"MUST\". Does anyone know anything about this?
As far as I know, all O level schools require students to take CL at O level in Sec 3, followed by HCL at O level in Sec 4. Some IP schools do not require students to sit for the O level CL in Sec 3. They just take HCL at O levels at Sec 4.


I have heard from some that because of the L1R5 requirement for JC admission (and I think some poly courses as well), they would rather the child not take HCL so that they can do better for normal chinese then struggle with HCL. That way, they can get a better grade for normal chinese to be used for the R5 component.

This is where my confusion lies. If the HCL is like in primary level, where the child takes both normal and HCL papers at \"O\" levels, then this issue of \"risk of lower grades in HCL\" affecting the L1R5 requirement won't be there right? That is assuming the child does take both papers at \"O\" levels and the schools do prepare the students for both. Hence the questions above.

Anyone can help clarify my confusion?


Thanks.

[Alarmchain]

Thank you for sharing, jtoh.


If there are others who have a different experience, appreciate your sharing.

Thanks!

[PlatypusMeowMeow]

Is it possible to start taking HMT at sec 2/3? Thanks.

[wonderm]

jtoh:

My answers in blue.

Alarmchain:

Hope someone can help clarify the following:
a) Is it true that a child taking HCL does not seat for the normal chinese at \"O\" levels? (This is unlike primary school where a child taking HCL seats for both normal Chinese and HCL papers and as such gets grades for both subjects)

Not true. Students in O level schools generally take CL at O level in Sec 3, and if they do well in the CL exam, are allowed to take HCL at O level in Sec 4.

b) Though it is stated from the MOE website that a child is ALLOWED to sit for the \"O\" level normal chinese paper at end of Sec 3. however, how different is the syllabus between the two? Is it like in the primary school case, where the HCL is the normal chinese syllabus plus additional stuff? This is because I heard that HCL at secondary level does not examine the oral component (hence not taught) but the normal chinese does. Is this true?

Not sure of the differences, but format is different and there's no oral for HCL.

c) Also, I wonder if there are any instances whereby the school offering HCL does not cater / prepare students to take the \"O\" level normal chinese paper at Sec 3 first, since the MOE stance is \"ALLOWED\", not \"MUST\". Does anyone know anything about this?
As far as I know, all O level schools require students to take CL at O level in Sec 3, followed by HCL at O level in Sec 4. Some IP schools do not require students to sit for the O level CL in Sec 3. They just take HCL at O levels at Sec 4.


I have heard from some that because of the L1R5 requirement for JC admission (and I think some poly courses as well), they would rather the child not take HCL so that they can do better for normal chinese then struggle with HCL. That way, they can get a better grade for normal chinese to be used for the R5 component.

This is where my confusion lies. If the HCL is like in primary level, where the child takes both normal and HCL papers at \"O\" levels, then this issue of \"risk of lower grades in HCL\" affecting the L1R5 requirement won't be there right? That is assuming the child does take both papers at \"O\" levels and the schools do prepare the students for both. Hence the questions above.

Anyone can help clarify my confusion?


Thanks.

For point (b), O Level HCL will have the oral component in future. This year's exam still did not have oral, but there has been some changes.

[wonderm]

QueenB:

Thanks so much everyone! This is very useful information. I find that the HMT helps in my daughter's overall ability for the language. But it also has been a lot of hardwork! Therefore, am just re-evaluating if all that hardwork is worth the effort in the longer term. Tks for all the tips. Anymore insights, please add on.

At primary level, taking HCL helps the child to improve his Chinese in general. He is more likely to do better in CL during PSLE. The bonus point from HCL itself is not very significant for most students.
At Sec level, taking HCL allows them to focus on other subjects during A Level. If the child is in O Level stream, it has another advantage of getting 2 bonus points for JC admission. This is very significant, in my opinion.

[concernmother]

My DS had A for PSLE Chinese and a Pass for HCL. Can he take HCL in Sec 1 next year? I heard from friends that you are allow to take HCL if you have a A star for Chinese or a Distinction/ Merit for HCL in PSLE.