Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?
-
Irrelevant:
Eh, a very good one!
Now then you realise? [Sorry ah, sarcasm is in my blood.]ngl2010:
Btw, I think last year the govt also said that they will increase income tax. Not now but in the future. Life is going to be very very tough....
Every time opposition open their mouths to government = please spend more.
Every time government lose share of votes = spend more to buy back votes.
See where the inevitable conclusion is? Exactly, a race to buy votes.
Incidentally, we do not have a monopoly on this phenomenon. Just ask Uncle Sam.
“The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville
And, excellent quote aptly applied here.
:goodpost: -
pirate:
Another good one! :goodpost:ngl2010:
How to make govt listen that we don't want this ponzi scheme? Petition (please don't say elect WP because we all agree that they are not ready to be the govt)? I am very pessimistic that they will listen to us because they usually carry out their plan regardless of the ground sentiments (please correct me if I am wrong). Really feel hopeless now :sad:
Don't just say what you don't want. Say what you want. Then think about the costs of what you want. After that, decide again whether you still want it. -
Just relax:
Wah, many good posts this Saturday afternoon.I think the reaction to the White Paper is the knee jerk reaction to Singaporean's unhappiness with FT in general. The Govt. has miscalculated ground sentiment on this issue and has not done a good job to differentiate between SC and PR. It's lax policy of allowing PRs to become SCs easily has also devalued being a SC.
Govt. is now trying to change course and has promised tighter control but before can implement controls snd SHOW results the White Paper comes out and again Govt. seems desperate to have many FTs as possible.
Poor timing by Govt. which shows poor reading of ground sentiment. For Singapore-born SCs who love their country it appears that Govt. is taking them for granted. White Paper may be right in its numbers and are produced by bureaucrats who work with numbers and cold, hard reality of life but politicians must learn to translate cold hard reality into digestible news for the people. Govt. has hardware and software but lacks heartware! I hope Govt. realizes this early enough otherwise people will vote opposition for the wrong reasons and when opposition itself is not ready to lead the country. Then there will be confusion.
I think part of the problem is PAP does not want charismatic politicians for fear of undue influence over people. Look at US, Barack Obama is so ill-prepared to lead a country with zero CEO or Governor experience (Senator experience is even worse than our own MP's experience!) yet he got elected. The difference is that US is too big and strong to be affected by 1 individual, but Singapore is different.
So PAP has technocrats and nobody with charisma to fire up the passions of people and deliver news and policies that people can understand and accept. Opposition is also in the same boat except for LTK, but he can only fire up Chinese-speaking base not the English-educated base.
:goodpost: -
3Boys:
And pray tell, what is wrong with GST at 10%, if there is mitigation in increased social spending to compensate? Many countries with a socialist bent have higher GST than Singapore. One dimensional thinking again, WeiHan?[/quote]Yap! That's right! Want more social spending? Gov must look into ways to broaden the tax base, or increase the rate of the current tax base!
Is quite interesting to see how you draw conclusion completely opposite from what what most people have been drawing.WeiHan:
[quote=\"Irrelevant\"]
Every time opposition open their mouths to government = please spend more.
Every time government lose share of votes = spend more to buy back votes.
See where the inevitable conclusion is? Exactly, a race to buy votes.
majority conclusion: every time PAP won an election, prices increase ( be it GST etc...)
Your conclusion: Tax increased in future is due to opposition winning votes.
I think: If not because of opposition gaining some votes, GST would have already increased to 10%.
Increase the population is also widening the tax base, but don't go down well with people. By 2050, every 1 working adult is paying for 2 retirees. But, that, leave it for our children to grieve, to complain, or to vote for opposition etc. But, all things too late!!
It's either we ride the stormy water now and steer to the safer and calmer side of the ocean, or forever trap in the storm and waiting to be capsized! -
Once going down the deficit path, it’s almost in the territory of no hope to revive, especially we are so tiny an economy.
-
Harlequin:
Another good one! :goodpost:[/quote]Pirate, super like what you said in red! If people are so logical, there won't be so much unhappiness.pirate:
[quote=\"ngl2010\"]How to make govt listen that we don't want this ponzi scheme? Petition (please don't say elect WP because we all agree that they are not ready to be the govt)? I am very pessimistic that they will listen to us because they usually carry out their plan regardless of the ground sentiments (please correct me if I am wrong). Really feel hopeless now :sad:
Don't just say what you don't want. Say what you want. Then think about the costs of what you want. After that, decide again whether you still want it. -
Harlequin:
Yap! That's right! Want more social spending? Gov must look into ways to broaden the tax base, or increase the rate of the current tax base!
And pray tell, what is wrong with GST at 10%, if there is mitigation in increased social spending to compensate? Many countries with a socialist bent have higher GST than Singapore. One dimensional thinking again, WeiHan?3Boys:
[quote=\"WeiHan\"]
Is quite interesting to see how you draw conclusion completely opposite from what what most people have been drawing.
majority conclusion: every time PAP won an election, prices increase ( be it GST etc...)
Your conclusion: Tax increased in future is due to opposition winning votes.
I think: If not because of opposition gaining some votes, GST would have already increased to 10%.
Increase the population is also widening the tax base, but don't go down well with people. By 2050, every 1 working adult is paying for 2 retirees. But, that, leave it for our children to grieve, to complain, or to vote for opposition etc. But, all things too late!!
It's either we ride the stormy water now and steer to the safer and calmer side of the ocean, or forever trap in the storm and waiting to be capsized![/quote]Then when to stop increasing the population? New SC will grow old too. -
ngl2010:
Then when to stop increasing the population? New SC will grow old too.[/quote]Yes, they too, grow old and will eventually become our working adults' liability; but we ripe the fruits immediately as they arrive at our shore with immediate contribution to the economy to the tax coffer.
Yap! That's right! Want more social spending? Gov must look into ways to broaden the tax base, or increase the rate of the current tax base!Harlequin:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
And pray tell, what is wrong with GST at 10%, if there is mitigation in increased social spending to compensate? Many countries with a socialist bent have higher GST than Singapore. One dimensional thinking again, WeiHan?
Increase the population is also widening the tax base, but don't go down well with people. By 2050, every 1 working adult is paying for 2 retirees. But, that, leave it for our children to grieve, to complain, or to vote for opposition etc. But, all things too late!!
It's either we ride the stormy water now and steer to the safer and calmer side of the ocean, or forever trap in the storm and waiting to be capsized!
There is no other better way out than having our own authentic SG babies, but we are in arrears now.
1:1 ratio is probably taking into calculation that the FT/FW will not be here forever; they come, they work, they pay, they spend... supplement to our coffer. (albeit all other irritating issues many forummers voiced here.) -
The whole model seems to bank on the presumption that foreigners will always flock to Singapore as and when our govt wants them to…
What if, in 10-20 years’ time, there are other far more attractive cities for them to emigrate to? Would they still want to come here?
And after getting all ready for that supposed "worst case scenario" of 6.9m, immigrant doesn’t flock here–as they’ve anticipated, then how? What are we gonna do with the presumed "Singaporean PMET" core then?
If they can lack forsight few years ago, there’s no reason why the same batch of policy-makers wouldn’t lack forsight yet again, is there?
So much for "preparing for the worst". -
Whatever bitter pills we refused to swallow today, it will not turn into candies for our children, for sure!
Opposition party is not the savior god, when we are at 1:2 working adult/retiree. Even if they are put into power, I would bet they would do the same things as what PAP is proposing.
That said, we owed our prosperity today to our forefathers that swallowed it.
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