Are you ready for 7 million people on tiny Singapore?

[concern2]

Dreamaurora:

Therein lies the paradox. Nobody starts immediately as a chef in a 5* hotel (unless parents are loaded); any aspiring chef have to start work as a line cook and work their way up to become sous chef before becoming an executive chef.

If we link 'face' to how much we earn, the joy is only temporary. And having a lot of 'face' because of how much we earn does not guarantee respect from others; just see how much animosity people have towards our MPs and ministers despite them earning really a lot of money. For me 'face' is about the quality and honesty in my work. I watched Jiro Dreams of Sushi and I truly respect that kind of character. Even though he could have gone fully commercial and set up sushi chains to earn really lots of money, he choose to devote his heart and soul to his sushi creations in that single sushi shop he owns for decades. Now that is a 'face' that I would die for. We don't work to please other people. If 'face' is that important, why is it many high earning professionals decided to do mid-career switch to a job that is much less prestigious and lesser pay such as teaching or social work?

:goodpost: :grphug:

You took the words right out of my mouth, and expressed it even better!

[concern2]

sinoboy:

Dora1:

I am not in the IT industry. Nothing even close. And we face the same problem.
And I, as a Singaporean, am very offended with what 3boys said abt the SC workforce. Are we seriously so bad? I am proud to be a Singaporean and of my fellow Singaporean colleagues and our work ethics. Can you please enlighten me if the SG workforce is so bad, why do MNCs come? For the infrastructure?

Sorry no offense. MNC come here because of tax incentives. There is no free lunch. Want good workforce go China. They can make and fake iPhones. :scared:

:rotflmao:

[concern2]

pirate:

Dreamgear:

The IT i am referring to is the huawei, hcl and hp services of the world....

I hope our IT boys know that Huawei is a PRC company and HCL is an Indian company.

As for HP. Hee hee hee, we all know what kind of shape HP is in nowadays... :evil:

Interesting. Since 3boys said before, foreigners create as well as take away jobs - So these companies - do they create more or take away jobs more jobs from us? :scratchhead:

[concern2]

pirate:

And... surprise, surprise, we are back in the IT departments (We have an IT industry to speak of?!). Is it any surprise that the grumblings from this particular segment is the loudest online? Apparently we are supposed to craft national economic and labour policies based on the rumblings of those in the IT line. :siao:

:scared: Really? IT industry's grumblings is the loudest? Why har? :? Because they are the hardest hit by competition from foreigners?

[concern2]

Dreamaurora:

First, these FT managers tend to hire FTs of their own nationalities or races. Not because they are cheaper, but because they will be easier to work with as they will share the same culture.

And second, local graduates need to service education loans, give money to parents, save for future marriages, etc. They will definitely need higher starting pay as they will be spending most of their income in Singapore. This is in contrast to FTs who most likely will return to their countries once they acquire enough savings. For some graduates, accepting lower income below market rate may not be entirely practical.

There is no iron rice bowl nowadays. But I do think more can be done to give local graduates more equal footing to these FTs.

:goodpost: Agree especially with the highlighted. It is ultimately people whom we are dealing with. One cannot expect a graduate to have to withstand a cross cultural background and not expect that it will also happen to foreigners. There is a preference, and this is not just in IT industry.

[concern2]

sunflower:

I think in general, Singaporeans are quite an accepting lot with regards to FTs. It’s the EXCESSIVE number that tilts the balance, which is making people unhappy.

I think garmen should start looking into 'nationalities' other than ethnic grouping in allocation of HDB flats. Just wondering, if white paper passes through this time, and if next round oppositions take over majority of seats, can they apply to re-look into the policy? Just wondering, don't flame me har...

[Dora1]

Nebbermind:

Dreamaurora:

First, these FT managers tend to hire FTs of their own nationalities or races. Not because they are cheaper, but because they will be easier to work with as they will share the same culture.

They certainly donch appear to be cheaper. Many of them bring their whole family here and live in condos...not those in some secluded part of SG but along BT and on Orchard. They can't be getting a few K with the rental at such crazy rates + Intl school fees + continental SUV.

I think we're talking about different types of FTs here. All along the ang mo or Jap FTs have been here, they transfer some knowledge to us, but we also get bullied along the way. They come here to relax and earn big fat expat allowance while we slog like crazy. But I think SCs general accept that, because, most of the MNCs are from Ang Mo or Jap anyway. So preferential treatment is given to them since they are from the same country as the boss. And most people just take it. Anyway, their numbers are small compared to SCs. So I think if you work in Huawei, cannot complain abt too many PRCs, because they ARE the boss.
But I think the general complain is SCs being bullied by FTs from other countries, in other MNCs, GLCs and even stat board (like me!). Those of you here who are so agreeable to the white paper, can I ask if you have worked in a company where SCs are the minority? In the stat board that I am in, only 35% in my dept is SC. The boss is a new citizen. The 4 middle management people are all FTs. My previous workplace has now turned into 70% FT vs 30% SC. If you have worked in a place like tat, and you can still so passionately embrace the white paper, then I really must salute you, from the bottom of my heart, because frankly there is no way I can do it.

[concern2]

Just relax:

Sigh!! Yes I was indeed being SARCASTIC about FT consultants hiring FTs because they were cheaper.

I have seen first hand how the FTs have come in and slowly but surely changed the proportion of FTs and SCs and how the Govt. is either oblivious or too scared to intervene as then it would be seen to be interfering in the marketplace.

Look at how the various foreign chambers of commerce have so quickly come together to clamour against the White Paper saying it discriminates against FTs!!

It seems ironical that as SCs grumble and rant that the White Paper is not favorable to SCs the foreign chambers are also claiming that the White Paper is against FTs.

I have already previously posted in another thread or this thread, I am not sure, that SG continues to be an attractive place for FTs compared to the rest of ASEAN and for good reason. The other countries in ASEAN can survive and thrive WITHOUT FTs simply because of their population size or natural resources.

It is not so simple that if SG tightens the FT situation that these FTs can run elsewhere in ASEAN, they CANNOT. SG has a unique position and frankly I do not think the politicians in the other ASEAN countries want to or would care face their own electorate and answer why all the plum high-paying jobs are going to FTs when their own graduate countrymen cannot find suitable jobs.

U just have to look at M'sia, Indonesia, Philippines to see many hundreds of thousands of unemployed graduates. FTs certainly are not making a beeline for Brunei, Myanmar, Cambodia or Laos. Both Vietnam and Thailand also have large homogenous populations to employ so FTs are not necessary but can be tolerated in small numbers.

So within ASEAN the only place to find work and RAISE a family safely is SG. I cannot say beyond ASEAN to Taiwan, Korea, Japan as FTs have been going there long before they started coming to SG.

As for China and India, these are the places producing the FTs and the numbers are only increasing! Certainly both these economies cannot find enough jobs for their FTs and want them to go out to release the pressure and actually the Govts of India and China probably hope that these FTs can do what they have been doing in SG, which is to come in and create the environment for even more Indian and Chinese FTs to come into the host country. And it appears this has succeeded in SG todate.

Let me ask the question, would the FT prefer to raise his family in SG or in Laos, Cambodia or Brunei (the 3 other smallest countries in ASEAN)?

I think the Govt. has to recognize and be bold enough to take remedial steps to ensure that FTs are here to support SCs and not to boss over them. The FTs bring their talent with them so as to pass on the skills to the next generation of SCs. You may still need middle-management FTs because SG does not have enough but certainly there are enough bright SCs to manage SG-based foreign MNCs in addition to the local SMEs. And as more SCs become better trained through interactions with FT these SCs can in turn go on to manage companies outside SG and pave the way for bright SCs to go out of SG. That should be the way. The FTs supplement middle management and groom upper management.

Well that is how it should be in theory!

The little red dot needs foreigners to survive! Or it will go back to being 3rd World! Singapore is safe, developed, and stable, that's why EVERYONE wants to come here - Expensive? Nevermind! That means they have to be RICH enough to survive in this environment! And Singapore is so attractive because of its garmen! They have sold Singapore so well that everyone wants to come here! But it is the locals with narrow mindsets that aren't appreciating all these! They just know how to :rant: and taking all these for granted, even wanting to migrate! They don't know how fortunate they are!!!

What rights do Singaporeans have to complain about? They are just frogs in the well, donno about what goes on around the world! Look at Greece - do they want this to happen to Singapore too? Foreigners do not want to be discriminated upon - they know their rights that's why must take care not to infuriate them! Locals? Nevermind lah, election only comes once every 5 years, and what can they do in the mean time by make noise? Anyway, majority are very coorperative and don't like confrontations - they have been honed to accept a peaceful and non-combative environment - look at how many are repelled by the rants and grunts online, hehehhe! Kiasuparents? They better just stick to worrying and planning for their kids' future! Don't understand -- they have world-class education system, they have CPFs, they have world best public transport - look at the squeeze in Japan and Beijing, at least in Singapore, they are sardines, not dao pok! They have world class hospitals, world class airports, they even have award-winning waterways - what more do they want? Just to increase population KPKB, liddat also cannot take it, next time all businesses withdraw and move to Korea and China then they will know the real bawu! ..... :siam:

[ammonite]

I like your \"rant\".


Frogs in the well deserve to be fried with ginger, chilli and soya sauce and serve up with hot claypot porridge hor ...

[Dreamgear]

Dora1:

Nebbermind:

[quote=\"Dreamaurora\"]

First, these FT managers tend to hire FTs of their own nationalities or races. Not because they are cheaper, but because they will be easier to work with as they will share the same culture.

They certainly donch appear to be cheaper. Many of them bring their whole family here and live in condos...not those in some secluded part of SG but along BT and on Orchard. They can't be getting a few K with the rental at such crazy rates + Intl school fees + continental SUV.

I think we're talking about different types of FTs here. All along the ang mo or Jap FTs have been here, they transfer some knowledge to us, but we also get bullied along the way. They come here to relax and earn big fat expat allowance while we slog like crazy. But I think SCs general accept that, because, most of the MNCs are from Ang Mo or Jap anyway. So preferential treatment is given to them since they are from the same country as the boss. And most people just take it. Anyway, their numbers are small compared to SCs. So I think if you work in Huawei, cannot complain abt too many PRCs, because they ARE the boss.
But I think the general complain is SCs being bullied by FTs from other countries, in other MNCs, GLCs and even stat board (like me!). Those of you here who are so agreeable to the white paper, can I ask if you have worked in a company where SCs are the minority? In the stat board that I am in, only 35% in my dept is SC. The boss is a new citizen. The 4 middle management people are all FTs. My previous workplace has now turned into 70% FT vs 30% SC. If you have worked in a place like tat, and you can still so passionately embrace the white paper, then I really must salute you, from the bottom of my heart, because frankly there is no way I can do it.[/quote] :goodpost: