Budget 2013
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blueblue:
There we go. Thanks, blueblue, for the information.Oh yes, there are food stalls rental at $20 per month.
That is only if one does not mind the very low human traffic. My hb's friend was given such a stall in jurong. He was not able to make a decent living due to very bad business. The hawker centre has a very poor layout. The poor fellow ended up renting another better located stall in same hawker centre with a 4 figures rental.
Rentals that cheap based on today's market surely has reason behind it. In retail and F&B, location is key, hence many business pay high prices for them. Garmen is reaping the full benefits of this - or can I say, taking advantage of this.
Chains survive because some make profits and some don't, and they even out. The smaller sellers usually lose the battle, and their successes are short-lived with ever-increasing rentals. With more chains and less of others, we see the same shops everywhere.
When you can expect to see the same shops in every shopping centres, similar foodstalls in every foodcourts, something is lost in our daily lives. What is that? -
hquek:
NOT allowed. The tenant must be physically at the stall. Guess even family member took over running also cannot.Regarding the hawker stalls, I think it's very impt that the ones bidding are the ones actually managing the stalls. No point renting out at $320 or whatever tender price if that same person is turning around and subletting it to another person for 10x the amount he is paying.
Recent rules have disallowed the subsale, but I can't recall if sublet is still allowed.
However, existing owners can.. they are given 3 year grace period from 1/Apr/2012, after which, they must took over the running of the stall themselves. -
concern2:
There we go. People are too lazy to walk in for cheaper food. Or he never sell cheaper despite the low rent?
There we go. Thanks, blueblue, for the information.blueblue:
Oh yes, there are food stalls rental at $20 per month.
That is only if one does not mind the very low human traffic. My hb's friend was given such a stall in jurong. He was not able to make a decent living due to very bad business. The hawker centre has a very poor layout. The poor fellow ended up renting another better located stall in same hawker centre with a 4 figures rental. -
concern2:
So, please share how you come up with the calculation that it is cheaper to get somebody else to cook for you, using the exact same ingredients as found in the hawker centre food - comparing apples with apples.Haha! Yes, I did my calculations - who wouldn't if they have to do a fair share of cooking, shopping, eating out and ta bao personally? Frankly speaking, I don't see eating out and cooking as comparing apples to apples, so I found your argument about people being lazy to cook and cooking is generally cheaper than eating out is flawed - and narrow
I think a lot depends on family size and whether one has a full-time cook , be it a relative or domestic helper. Those who have small families living in new housing estates who have no domestic helpers and need to work and take care of family and work will know what I mean. So for some, eating out has become a necessity, and having home-cooked food a luxury.
Hm...I thought you have done some calculations yourself so I could learn something from you.. :sad:
Interesting also that you say 'wet market'. The place that I stay in, we have only 1 wet market within walking distance, and it isn't cheap compared to the NTUC which is also within walking distance. So, essentially, it doesn't make any difference whether it is wet market or not.
I have done my fair share of cooking for 2/3 meals at one time to save time. So don't give me that no time to cook therefore eating out is a necessity excuse. It is a matter of how one manages his/her time and grocery expenses.
You think there is no wet market in newer estates because (1) wet markets are too expensive or (2) young people nowadays only know how to buy groceries at air-con supermarkets? -
pirate:
There we go. People are too lazy to walk in for cheaper food. Or he never sell cheaper despite the low rent?[/quote]I believe more of the later..
There we go. Thanks, blueblue, for the information.concern2:
[quote=\"blueblue\"]Oh yes, there are food stalls rental at $20 per month.
That is only if one does not mind the very low human traffic. My hb's friend was given such a stall in jurong. He was not able to make a decent living due to very bad business. The hawker centre has a very poor layout. The poor fellow ended up renting another better located stall in same hawker centre with a 4 figures rental.
Singaporeans are well known for hunting good food no matter how remote they are.. :evil:
Famous hawker stalls with uber long queues are not always located in \"hot\" area.. some is really ulu but patrons always have a way to get there..
Hence, if a stall sells good food and is cheap, they will build a reputation for themselves somehow (or do minimum advertising) and words will spread and customer will flock in..
If between stall A & Stall B with same quality but Stall B is 10% or 50cts cheaper for a pkt of $3~$5 zhi char, but 50m further away, I will not hesitate to travel to stall B to get my food. I believe many will react similarly.
Even if quality and price is same but different standard of service, I will go to the one with better service even if it is 50m further away. -
limlim:
i believe so too
I believe more of the later.pirate:
.................
There we go. People are too lazy to walk in for cheaper food. Or he never sell cheaper despite the low rent?
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pirate:
Why do you say 'I think\"? It is a fact. I am not citing fictional cases here.
So, please share how you come up with the calculation that it is cheaper to get somebody else to cook for you, using the exact same ingredients as found in the hawker centre food - comparing apples with apples.concern2:
Haha! Yes, I did my calculations - who wouldn't if they have to do a fair share of cooking, shopping, eating out and ta bao personally? Frankly speaking, I don't see eating out and cooking as comparing apples to apples, so I found your argument about people being lazy to cook and cooking is generally cheaper than eating out is flawed - and narrow
I think a lot depends on family size and whether one has a full-time cook , be it a relative or domestic helper. Those who have small families living in new housing estates who have no domestic helpers and need to work and take care of family and work will know what I mean. So for some, eating out has become a necessity, and having home-cooked food a luxury.
Hm...I thought you have done some calculations yourself so I could learn something from you.. :sad:
Interesting also that you say 'wet market'. The place that I stay in, we have only 1 wet market within walking distance, and it isn't cheap compared to the NTUC which is also within walking distance. So, essentially, it doesn't make any difference whether it is wet market or not.
I have done my fair share of cooking for 2/3 meals at one time to save time. So don't give me that no time to cook therefore eating out is a necessity excuse. It is a matter of how one manages his/her time and grocery expenses.
You think there is no wet market in newer estates because (1) wet markets are too expensive or (2) young people nowadays only know how to buy groceries at air-con supermarkets?
No offence intended. I see you say you do a fair share of cooking to save time. May I know if that is comparing apple to apple? Like what kind of food exactly you cooked that you could also purchase from outside to make a dollar to dollar comparison?
To say eating out is an excuse for not cooking so generally is to accuse parents who have to work and by the time they get home to be too tired to cook, and/or have family to manage to be lazy. I think that is not a fair statement.
I don't think that is a result of laziness. If they are lazy, they'd prob choose to stay at home and kiao kah instead of working, right? Then meal time comes, just go outside to eat lor...yes? Maybe there ARE people like that, I won't say there aren't.
Very often, I see people taking public transport home and buying food back on their way home. For these people, if there is someone at home to do cooking for them, would they need to buy back? And I know many couples combine home-cooking and buying home/eating out, as their way of managing as this isn't a few days or a few weeks we are talking about. It is decades of one's daily life, so one needs to weigh out one's energy level, practicality, time management, etc., so as to keep one going. Not laziness, not excuses. Maybe there are some, just saying to make sweeping statements like that is to have one sided views of daily struggles modern parents face.
You are a husband, right, pirate? I hope if your wife chooses not to cook, you don't think she is giving excuses that she is actually just plain lazy. Again, no offence intended, just sharing my thoughts. -
limlim:
I believe more of the later..
There we go. People are too lazy to walk in for cheaper food. Or he never sell cheaper despite the low rent?pirate:
[quote=\"blueblue\"]Oh yes, there are food stalls rental at $20 per month.
That is only if one does not mind the very low human traffic. My hb's friend was given such a stall in jurong. He was not able to make a decent living due to very bad business. The hawker centre has a very poor layout. The poor fellow ended up renting another better located stall in same hawker centre with a 4 figures rental.
Singaporeans are well known for hunting good food no matter how remote they are.. :evil:
Famous hawker stalls with uber long queues are not always located in \"hot\" area.. some is really ulu but patrons always have a way to get there..
Hence, if a stall sells good food and is cheap, they will build a reputation for themselves somehow (or do minimum advertising) and words will spread and customer will flock in..
If between stall A & Stall B with same quality but Stall B is 10% or 50cts cheaper for a pkt of $3~$5 zhi char, but 50m further away, I will not hesitate to travel to stall B to get my food. I believe many will react similarly.
Even if quality and price is same but different standard of service, I will go to the one with better service even if it is 50m further away.[/quote]Thanks for chipping in, limlim!
It certainly makes a difference in terms of quality of food. I believe other than location, which is key, other factors like customer service do matter.
The stall in the corner starts with a disadvantage, almost like a handicap. He needs to work harder, if not, make himself stand out as to attract customers, and to continue to do so in order to succeed.
As for his food not being cheap enough, I do have some reservations. There is that basic ingredients cost. If you say the hawker isn't selling his food cheap enough, how cheap are we talking about? Reduce profit margin? Mark below cost? Or just break-even? If there is even profit that can be made from it to achieve higher sales, it is a good sign. However, if to price below cost and/break even, the hawker probably needs to use it to draw customers and slowly increase price over time, improving customer service and quality of food (e.g. taste better) at the same time so as not to loose customers due to the price increase. There is always an optimal customers are willing to pay. Also, will be a question how long the hawker can hold on to the low price since hawkers generally do not have abundant capital to throw in.
Assuming this to be a case, and the biz succeeds, it is still based on the situation whereby the rental is still at $20. Any one time rental is increased, the selling prices will have to be re-looked into, unless that is, so much goodwill has been earned over time that he is able to increase his price and still retain customers. And then, when there is renovation, the stall will need to relocate, or to halt biz temporarily. And everything starts from zero.
When renovations are made, it is often based on the assumption that conditions are better (of course, this never comes free). However, this isn't guaranteed. In fact, many hawkers' sales decline after that. I wonder if NEA keeps track of these things. Would be good if they do, so that things can be improved and looked into. -
I went to the NEA website and could not find the page on rental. There is one on myhawkers.sg, and under Adviseries, ‘Hawkerstalls’. I can’t see one which shows tender results.
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[/quote]
Aiya, wasted, missed it. Can anyone post the article here?
.....Only in ST ah...so EXclusive ah.. :duck:[/quote]
I have no concern whether you read it or not. I kind of suspect you will not be interested anyway. I felt it is a good speech which highlighted the reality that most people seems refused to contemplate and thought some in the KSP community might be interested to know. Whoever is interested enough will know where to read it. You can really for once stop seizing every single opportunity to insinuate inappropriateness and then put down anything that you perceived as associated with government/pap. You come across as trying too hard already.
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