桃花谈
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limlim:
limlim,
I guess you're mistaken.
This is NOT a reminder. It is criticism of undesirable behavior (i.e. speeding).
It is potentially dangerous and is Against the LAW.
...
THAT, is the point.
Anyway, to each his own.
friendly discussion hor coz I find this is a good case that emerged indirectly.
To me, I don't really read it as readers are 'criticising' her per se (honestly from my reading) but wrote as kind of from 'reminding' angle though msg may sound like 'criticising'.
You touched on 'LAW'.
Err...to tell you honestly, I am someone who ALWAYS seems like bending the law and rules coz I feel if everything also want to go according to them, then must wait long long for most things to happen. I 'wriggle' my way through many things to get things done.
I don't drive and so I don't really know what made people driving at 130 km/hr. BUT, it is not uncommon to see my husband and my brother and even my friends sometimes driving at that kind of speed if the road condition 'permits' (midnight on express way). At times I will tell them that I am 'scared' but most will not slow down coz of 'I scared'. They will just brush it off and said something like 'under this kind of road condition, can drive with this kind of speed lah'. In most days, these people drive decently.
So, if i want to take their cars, I learn to shut up coz they are the drivers and not me (similar theory that I never criticise my maid for her cooking coz I can't cook better than her...). If I cannot take it, then I will have to kao-tim myself.
There's one major guiding principle that I have while riding on another person's car - that I will not take any car if the driver has had more than 2 beer before driving...
PS:
I have a friend who drives up and down of KL weekly. From what I know, he is driving at above 150 km/hr. My heart sinks whenever I think of his driving speed but I DONT breathe a word coz he is a matured man with a successful business and he should know what he is doing and that he still has two kids and a wife at home.
This is the point of discussion here - that do we dish out 'obvious advice' to others, who actually in the first place need not share with us this kind of information, esp if they know the moment they share, they may get 'reminder' or 'criticism'.
This discussion can lead to the way on how we deal with our kids - about when to dish and when not to dish out our 'kind advice'... -
Well, I will say we dish out advice to our children because they have not experienced the consequences. Nagging is saying the same thing again and again, the same way, over and over again. Doesn’t work. But a serious talk, yes, it works. Sometimes the children need another serious talk, we find another way to say it again.
Driving, well simply put, roads is a public good. That gives all users a stake. Road safety concerns me, my family and my friend. Metz rightly pointed out that road conditions and culture are different here and elsewhere.
For me, I was surprised that Imami said she would drive at 130km/hr as long as she can, even if her son is in the car. (and of course, being an adult, how can she not expect reactions from the rest. She does and she states it publicly.) Of course I would not know what factors she consider acceptable, I only wish to point out that we are not omniscient (ie know everything at all times) the unexpected happens.
Who drives at 130km/hr? Someone who has not yet been involved in an accident or witnessed one. They are truly lucky.
About taking the cars of drivers who go at that speed. I am not that sanguine. They are responsible for their passengers. I told dh and my children if they die driving at this speed, I won’t cry for them and they better hope that they do not take any innocent lives. I do not nag. I tell them exactly how I feel, my stand, and my expectations.
We are all responsible for one another on the roads. Regret comes too late.
(this is not directed at Imami. I ave already said what I wanted previously. Anymore is pointless. This is a reply to Insider’s point.) -
Imami must be driving a big car that’s why can run at 130. I drive small car never go this speed. How to speed? The car cannot balance or might overturn I think. Anyway the point is it has overshot the designated speed limit too much. How come no summon?
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I used to drive a lot in the US. The highest speed I have ever gone at is 150mph which is about 240kmh. Even that is illegal in the US, where top speeds of most highways were set at 80mph (128kmh) and 65mph (105kmh) when near cities. But the lanes there were so wide, so straight, and so devoid of traffic that one just unconsciously reach that speed, which was what happened to me when I glanced at my speedometer then and had a shock and quickly took my foot off the pedal.
Whenever I get back to Singapore after driving for a couple of weeks in the US, I always feel that the speeds here are WAAY too slow. But after a couple of days of driving on skinny lanes and curvy roads, I quickly adapted back to the 80-90kmh range. It is just NOT possible to keep driving at a sustained speed beyond 100kmh for very long in Singapore, unless you do it after midnight and on highways.
I was also reminded of an accident on the ECP years ago where a car slammed into the back of a truck working on the road at around 3-4am. The driver died on the spot. From the very long trails left by screeching tires, investigators estimated that the car was going at 300kmh. At that speed, there is no chance for the guy to spot the truck and brake in time. For about a month, the tire trails and the point of collision remained visible on the highway. Each time I drove on that lane with those tire marks, I tried to imagine what it would be like if it had been me going at that kind of speed and seeing the truck looming up in milliseconds and knowing that death is inevitable. It is sobering. I never went beyond 110kmh in Singapore ever again. -
ammonite:
Perhaps towards younger kids can do the 'find another way to say it again' tactic. But what's your thought on adult kids.Well, I will say we dish out advice to our children because they have not experienced the consequences. Nagging is saying the same thing again and again, the same way, over and over again. Doesn't work. But a serious talk, yes, it works. Sometimes the children need another serious talk, we find another way to say it again.
My eldest niece (that bad temper sis's eldest daughter) is coming 25 years old.
She is into missionary work and so will go to ulu ulu places like remote parts of Cambodia, Laos, China, etc, and that always get my sis so ultra worried.
Then, she will dish out her 'kind advice', about 'dont go out at night', ' don't walk on deserted street', 'don't eat street food', 'be careful of drinking water', etc, etc. Then, she will try her 'another way' by forwarding rape cases that happened. Almost every trip is similar.
She is worried sick whenever my niece goes on mission trip and I advised her to calm down and stop 'imagining thing' and that my niece should have common sense after close to 3 years of going for regular mission trips.
But she insists that must remind 'kids' regularly else they may take things lightly.
To me, this is common sense for frequent travellers in a foreign land. Should a traveller decides to walk on deserted street in dark night, this fellow SHOULD know the inherent risk of such actions and therefore has to bear full consequences if anything unfortunate happens. (similar to adult kids who smoke. To me this is 'freedom' and there's no point of going into depth with them of telling them 'smoking causes cancer' etc. My position for adult kid smoking (not that any of my kids is smoking) is, \"I don't agree but it's your life\".)
My eldest niece gets very pieced by my sis constant 'kind advice'. She ever asked me how come mummy has to keep sending reports of these rape cases, as if she doesn't know. How come cannot let go? (of course, my usual psycho talk of coz mummy worries 'naturally' etc). Basically she will trash the fwd emails without even reading. My sis' nag has forced my niece to tell her lies, that she is supposed to be in an ulu part of a country but she will lie to her that she is actually in town (her thinking, 'since you so worried, it means you cannot take the truth'.)
My niece told me about her lies to my sis and I am still trying to figure out how to break this gently to my sis to stop her worries and 'kind reminders' so that my niece will tell her truth instead of lies when she travels. This one needs to think a bit coz I cant really 'betray' my niece's trust in me.
My mum still 'reminds' me to have proper and regular meals and I can understand no matter how old I am, I am still a little girl in her eyes. I will reply her cordially. But most of today younger generation may not have the patience (they yawn...) and may choose the easier route of maintaining little contact and offering minimal info to avoid 'kind advice'... -
insider:
You speak as if you're condoning \"speeding' and \"TRUST\" the driver to be fully capable of controlling that vehicle. I don't feel that is right.
limlim,limlim:
I guess you're mistaken.
This is NOT a reminder. It is criticism of undesirable behavior (i.e. speeding).
It is potentially dangerous and is Against the LAW.
...
THAT, is the point.
Anyway, to each his own.
You touched on 'LAW'.
Err...to tell you honestly, I am someone who ALWAYS seems like bending the law and rules coz I feel if everything also want to go according to them, then must wait long long for most things to happen. I 'wriggle' my way through many things to get things done.
I don't drive and so I don't really know what made people driving at 130 km/hr. BUT, it is not uncommon to see my husband and my brother and even my friends sometimes driving at that kind of speed if the road condition 'permits' (midnight on express way). At times I will tell them that I am 'scared' but most will not slow down coz of 'I scared'. They will just brush it off and said something like 'under this kind of road condition, can drive with this kind of speed lah'. In most days, these people drive decently.
So, if i want to take their cars, I learn to shut up coz they are the drivers and not me (similar theory that I never criticise my maid for her cooking coz I can't cook better than her...). If I cannot take it, then I will have to kao-tim myself.
There's one major guiding principle that I have while riding on another person's car - that I will not take any car if the driver has had more than 2 beer before driving...
PS:
I have a friend who drives up and down of KL weekly. From what I know, he is driving at above 150 km/hr. My heart sinks whenever I think of his driving speed but I DONT breathe a word coz he is a matured man with a successful business and he should know what he is doing and that he still has two kids and a wife at home.
This is the point of discussion here - that do we dish out 'obvious advice' to others, who actually in the first place need not share with us this kind of information, esp if they know the moment they share, they may get 'reminder' or 'criticism'.
This discussion can lead to the way on how we deal with our kids - about when to dish and when not to dish out our 'kind advice'...
I wouldn't touch much on Law except to say that in this case, it is for the best interest of the general public that a speed limit is imposed.
To the part in blue, SG is a relatively densely populated country. It is not some place which is devote of human activity for miles. under what kind of condition? just because no other cars on the road you assumed that there will not be a little boy running out of the roadside chasing after a ball? or a quarreling pair fighting and chasing each other? if you're driving at 60km/h, can you brake in time? if you're driving at 130km/h, will the result be the same?
it is plain IRRESPONSIBLE. And perhaps a bit of arrogance. How often are drivers trained to brake or react in emergency(at high speed)?
To the part in red, you are in their vehicle, it's your choice to keep quiet.
My reply is, you are on public road, you jolly well stick to the rules of the road and the Law of the country. It is your private car but this is NOT your grandfather road. not meant to be offensive but just to get the points across. because I find the argument very skewed against road safety and public interest.
For the part on advise.. actually, I did not even noticed imami's speeding habit until someone pointed out \"speeding\". You see, my comments is not about the person, but the dangerous act, and the fact that you are appearing to attempt to arguing against \"condemning such an act\" just becoz you felt that \"the person shd known better what he is doing\".
I am going to nag again and repeat this..
You are the driver, it is your vehicle. I have no say on how you're going to handle or abuse your vehicle, it is your freedom and none of my biz.
BUT, you are on public road and being so, it is my concern, as a resident of this country. You can speed all your want in your own backyard and I am not going to even say a thing. -
insider:
She is into missionary work and so will go to ulu ulu places like remote parts of Cambodia, Laos, China, etc, and that always get my sis so ultra worried.
Then, she will dish out her 'kind advice', about 'dont go out at night', ' don't walk on deserted street', 'don't eat street food', 'be careful of drinking water', etc, etc. Then, she will try her 'another way' by forwarding rape cases that happened. Almost every trip is similar.
My eldest niece gets very pieced by my sis constant 'kind advice'. She ever asked me how come mummy has to keep sending reports of these rape cases, as if she doesn't know. How come cannot let go?
Your sis is right to be worried. I can totally empathise with her concern. And I don't think it's an unduly worry in your sister's situation.
Actually I think your niece should put in more thoughts for her mum. If she knew her mum is worried sick about her going on such trips, why can't she compromise? It's part of filial piety too, isn't it? -
Just want to post a reminder(nag) that drivers on the road owe a duty of care towards other road users.
they tends to be more conscious of their ability to handle the vehicle but less conscious of the need to remind themselves not to succumb to willful disregard of this duty of care. -
sleepy:
Your sis is right to be worried. I can totally empathise with her concern. And I don't think it's an unduly worry in your sister's situation.
Actually I think your niece should put in more thoughts for her mum. If she knew her mum is worried sick about her going on such trips, why can't she compromise? It's part of filial piety too, isn't it?
No, this part my sis has to compromise.
It seems like missionary work is my niece's calling and I sort of can see she making it 'big' in this area. She needs the exposure and the experience. (later I may sponsor her for her Masters in Social Service when she is ready.)
Putting my niece in any other job that appears 'safer' may clip her wings forever and I cannot agree. This is similar to if I were to ask my son not climb high mountains or dive deep seas and then coz I worried, he better go and do some more 'earthy' jobs. That may 'lengthen' my son's life with higher probability but that will affect his quality of life.
My niece gives her filial piety via 'lies' at this moment...(i don't wish my son to lie to me that he is going for a shopping trip when he is actually treking in a remote jungle.)
My sis is the one who needs to change for this case (even if my niece were to later maybe die in overseas) coz to love means to let go completely...
PS:
These are all very good discussion points... -
limlim:
You speak as if you're condoning \"speeding' and \"TRUST\" the driver to be fully capable of controlling that vehicle. I don't feel that is right.
errr... I don't condone speeding as it is not right (my life is so precious).
of course most people, esp drivers, will know the difference between trying to brake while driving at 60 km/h or 130 km/h. There's no need to 'teach' them about the consequences. Those who want to drive at high speed KNOW the consequences if the car gets out of control (the way my heart sinks when I think of my KL friend always drives at above 150 km/h).
when they know, then the consequences are really theirs and anyone if ever get implicated in any accident caused by them to me is 天意，that cannot be reversed via 'kind advice'...
this point will bring us back to the 开窍. If someone thinks that he can get away with high speed driving forever, he will forever drive fast whenever possible regardless of what other people say until something happens or until the day he suddenly 开窍. if 窍 not 开, then talk until cow comes home also no use... (this is the crux of my position and not that I condone speed driving...)
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