桃花谈
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insider:
Erm, can't agree with the above.
errr... I don't condone speeding as it is not right (my life is so precious).
of course most people, esp drivers, will know the difference between trying to brake while driving at 60 km/h or 130 km/h. There's no need to 'teach' them about the consequences. Those who want to drive at high speed KNOW the consequences if the car gets out of control (the way my heart sinks when I think of my KL friend always drives at above 150 km/h).
when they know, then the consequences are really theirs and anyone if ever get implicated in any accident caused by them to me is 天意，that cannot be reversed via 'kind advice'...
this point will bring us back to the 开窍. If someone thinks that he can get away with high speed driving forever, he will forever drive fast whenever possible regardless of what other people say until something happens or until the day he suddenly 开窍. if 窍 not 开, then talk until cow comes home also no use... (this is the crux of my position and not that I condone speed driving...)
1) Do they really know e consequences or think they know? They know if they, e drivers, speed and get into an accident, they suffer irrecoverable damages (injury/death) BUT do they know, it's not just themselves. Have they spare a thought for other road users, do they know they are endangering other road users? Most people think it will not happen to them, have they thought about it may not be them, that caused e accident? The cause could be a reckless or careless or inexperienced driver, BUT, e speed that they are travelling at may make a difference? Being considerate on e road also shows the kind of 品德 e person has. Person with high 德行 will be mindful of how their acts impact others. Basically, this is also 公德心。
2) 缘 between people can be from the past or can be newly created. If a pax can 修 his 德 even on e road, he can 化解 any \"天意＂ or 恶缘 that could result in an accident. Just like wat u hv previously said, we can change our fate/life by doing e right things, similarly, 修德 can help us to 化险为夷，化敌为友，化腐朽为神奇。Can even 化恶业，化劫难。So we cannot say its 天意 and purposely do something we know is not right and blame everything on 天意。
If it's a new 缘，then all the more we should not go around making 恶缘。Thus, e consequences is not just on e driver who speeds, it 牵引/牵涉 alot of others, be it old or new \"acquaintance\". -
popireis:
@ popireis
Erm, can't agree with the above.insider:
errr... I don't condone speeding as it is not right (my life is so precious).
of course most people, esp drivers, will know the difference between trying to brake while driving at 60 km/h or 130 km/h. There's no need to 'teach' them about the consequences. Those who want to drive at high speed KNOW the consequences if the car gets out of control (the way my heart sinks when I think of my KL friend always drives at above 150 km/h).
when they know, then the consequences are really theirs and anyone if ever get implicated in any accident caused by them to me is 天意，that cannot be reversed via 'kind advice'...
this point will bring us back to the 开窍. If someone thinks that he can get away with high speed driving forever, he will forever drive fast whenever possible regardless of what other people say until something happens or until the day he suddenly 开窍. if 窍 not 开, then talk until cow comes home also no use... (this is the crux of my position and not that I condone speed driving...)
1) Do they really know e consequences or think they know? They know if they, e drivers, speed and get into an accident, they suffer irrecoverable damages (injury/death) BUT do they know, it's not just themselves. Have they spare a thought for other road users, do they know they are endangering other road users? Most people think it will not happen to them, have they thought about it may not be them, that caused e accident? The cause could be a reckless or careless or inexperienced driver, BUT, e speed that they are travelling at may make a difference? Being considerate on e road also shows the kind of 品德 e person has. Person with high 德行 will be mindful of how their acts impact others. Basically, this is also 公德心。
2) 缘 between people can be from the past or can be newly created. If a pax can 修 his 德 even on e road, he can 化解 any \"天意＂ or 恶缘 that could result in an accident. Just like wat u hv previously said, we can change our fate/life by doing e right things, similarly, 修德 can help us to 化险为夷，化敌为友，化腐朽为神奇。Can even 化恶业，化劫难。So we cannot say its 天意 and purposely do something we know is not right and blame everything on 天意。
If it's a new 缘，then all the more we should not go around making 恶缘。Thus, e consequences is not just on e driver who speeds, it 牵引/牵涉 alot of others, be it old or new \"acquaintance\".
:goodpost: -
popireis:
insider:
Erm, can't agree with the above.
Erm...much as we want everyone to have good 德行, but life is such that not everyone will have this.
Most if not all of us are imperfect with 无明 in this area or that area. It's a fact that we have to accept and live with it and it's a fact that we cant really do much about it.
we all know it's not right for some men to 抛妻弃子, like the recent case of my friend's brother who is in the process of divorcing the good wife and marry that China 小三 who bore him a child. You think anyone can talk sense into him? Not even his parents. He just has to go through his decision and live with all consequences, for good or for bad while in the meantime, his wife has to bear the full blunt though she is not at fault for this extra marital affair.
All his family members, though do not agree with his doing, still has to accept and then 'see how' later.
It's the same like if our child commits a crime, such as rape or molestation. The child SHOULD know that it's wrong but somehow he still did it. If caught, what can you do as parents other than telling him we are disappointed but he is still our dear child and then to face his own consequences?
The recent case of the two brothers on a bicycle hit by a truck. It's of course tremendous loss for the family. If the parents cannot accept it as 天意, forgive the driver, and to move on , then they would be very miserable for the rest of their lives.
You may not believe about this 天意 but it's true, about why a reckless driver will hit on a particular person but not the other（宿世恩怨 that is beyond explanation...).
most of us know it's not right to force or 'coerce' our kiddos to be what we want them to be instead of what they want themselves to be, we still cannot help it and continue to 'chip in' whatever extras we can to make them 'better'. The 'for your good' concept is highly controversial in itself.
one just cannot force 德行 onto another one if that someone is yet to 开窍. To try to force is against Confucius' teachings (he preached about good 德行 but he also mentioned about do not dish out advice if you think one is not ready to take).
PS Confucius (he applied the below to friendship but I extended it to all relationships between ourselves with our parents and ourselves with out children):
适度中节
子贡问友于孔子,在《论语·颜渊》中,孔子说:“忠告而善道之,不可则止”。
孔子认为,对待朋友的错误,要坦诚布公地劝导他,推心置腹地讲明利害关系,但他坚持不听,也就作罢。
如果别人不听,你一再劝告,不但不能达到目的反而会自取其辱。
可见,与朋友相处时“忠告善导”固不可少,但也要懂得“不可则止”的道理,这也是孔子明哲保身原则在交朋友上的具体运用。
另外,孔子认为,朋友关系是一种非常亲密的关系,但是要把握好与朋友的距离。因为人性的弱点,过分亲密与接近都会造成反感。正如《论语·里仁》中,子游所讲:“事君数,斯辱矣,朋友数,斯疏矣”。
出于忠心而诲之,但忠言逆耳,若不被听从,也不可勉强行之,过于烦琐,以致“言者轻,听者厌”,求亲而反疏,落得难堪收场。
http://xxlyart.web-52.com/bbs/ShowPost.asp?ThreadID=157783&ViewMode=1 -
Actually I think most of us just do not agree with people who choose to ignore other’s safety by exceeding the speed limit.
As a pedestrian & citizen, we have every right to point this out. If that person drives dangerously met with accident and died alone with no other victims involved then yes it’s not our problem.
For example, if any of your relatives met with an accident (touch wood) so can we say "it’s fated Lar, who ask the person to be so suay?" NO !
Such things can be avoided if that person has a RIGHT attitude and to observe road safety at all times it’s not difficult right !! -
Aiyo.... My driving speed has generated so much attention! So sorry, was busy the past few days and hence didn't really check ksp's posts. The thing I have observed is nobody asks about where/why/how I zoom up to 130km/hr! And then judgement was passed about me, my attitude and anything related to the same topic.
Not that i am saying i am a very skillful driver or anything like that. When driving on highways in big countries, one tend to move faster and faster unknowingly. Or is it just me? Hehe. I didn't hit 130km/hr immediately. It somehow \"accumulated\" after cruising a while. The last I checked, the speedometer showed 100km/hr and the next time I knew, it's already 130km/hr.keroppi:
sound right although i have never checked, given singapore's traffic law framework. But the thing is, when I accelerated up to 130km/hr, I was not in Singapore.A speed limit of 90km/h is imposed on our expressways for a reason. Speeding at 130 km/h, if caught, will be haul to court and license suspended.
limlim:
Again, this bring back to my earlier question -why nobody asked where I was driving?You may not cause an accident, but your speed might change the consequences of an accident should another car cut into your path or hit you causing you to lose control.
Losing control of a car at 60km/h and that for a car at 130km/hr can have very different results..
when I hit 130km/hr, there was no car in sight, not in front, not behind. A long straight stretch of highway where there was no vehicle at all.
I do practice defensive driving and was mindful of possible danger, not senselessly/blindly speeding. When Iinsider:
Thank you insider, for having Confidence that I have certain level of sound judgement in terms of driving and civic mindedness. Same as the others, you also didn't ask the where/why/how but different from the others, you probably don't ask/comment/remind/judge, because u believe I know what I am doing.In this case is imami talked about she speeding, then others chipped in to warn her of the danger of speeding.
To me, I will not 'advise' coz I believe she knows what she is doing and therefore 'advice' may either make her or myself look stupid. It is quite impossible for her not to understand the danger of speeding and therefore, they must be a reason when she speeds.
And of cos I know what I am doing. after realizing I hit a newfound height, My first thought was to slow down because I had never driven that fast and the sheer speed kind of shocked me because i may not know how to handle such speed. 130km/hr is probably not the same ballgame as 100km/hr. The second thing that came to my mind was - why my private tp didn't sound alarm. Ah, must be the scenery. A whole stretch of ocean coastline, mountains and cliffs. This little one has never seen them.limlim:
indeed, I see this comment (and some others as well) as criticism on me and my action. But really, how sound/good are these criticism when the one criticizing doesn't get the whole picture?This is NOT a reminder. It is criticism of undesirable behavior (i.e. speeding).
metz:
Ah, I like this post.I have been driving at average speed of 130km/h (speed limit) abroad for the last two years and would say I am pretty comfortable with this speed. However, once back in Singapore, I keep reminding myself to slow down and not exceed the road limit here. Not because I doubt my own driving skill but because I understand the driving culture here is different. Safety First comes to mind, both mine and that of other road users.
I don't expect others to think like me, but I do pray hard for those who are confident of their driving skills to speed only on roads/time where/when there are no other motorists.
I think Singapore roads are too congested and built up to speed up to 130km/hr or beyond. Even 110km/hr is not quite possible to sustain for more than 5min. I don't ply all Singapore roads though, so there may be places I do not know.insider:
Erm... Maybe my 无明 bigger. I see those comments as criticism. Oops.To me, I don't really read it as readers are 'criticising' her per se (honestly from my reading) but wrote as kind of from 'reminding' angle though msg may sound like 'criticising'.
insider:
I stayed away for a while due to work (didn't even have time to go and earn easy kps!). While there is actually no need for me to explain, because of the \"excitement\" my driving speed has generated, I see a need to speak. But I probably will stop responding after this post. If no one bother to ask in depth, I don't need to explain in depth.This is the point of discussion here - that do we dish out 'obvious advice' to others, who actually in the first place need not share with us this kind of information, esp if they know the moment they share, they may get 'reminder' or 'criticism'.
ammonite:
Can you please point to me, which post did I mention \" as long as I can\"? I could have unwittedly misled you.For me, I was surprised that Imami said she would drive at 130km/hr as long as she can, even if her son is in the car.
fanren:
A hahaha....this one makes me laugh. The usual set of wheels I drive in Singapore is an average family sedan. Can't ram up to 130km/hr without vibration or stressing the car engine (or so I was told by my hubby).Imami must be driving a big car that's why can run at 130. I drive small car never go this speed. How to speed? The car cannot balance or might overturn I think. Anyway the point is it has overshot the designated speed limit too much. How come no summon?
The one that allowed me to move up to 130km/hr was a much more powerful car. Luckily where I was driving it, they have spacious parking lots. If in Singapore, I think I have problem parking.
Even in Singapore context, you think everyone who speed Kenna summon meh?
Like I said earlier, it was a long stretch of highway. In big countries, I dunno how much more tp they have? In proportion to sg?ChiefKiasu:
Wah chief, isn't 240km/hr close to f1's speed (on the slow side)???? Wah, u good.I used to drive a lot in the US. The highest speed I have ever gone at is 150mph which is about 240kmh. Even that is illegal in the US, where top speeds of most highways were set at 80mph (128kmh) and 65mph (105kmh) when near cities. But the lanes there were so wide, so straight, and so devoid of traffic that one just unconsciously reach that speed, which was what happened to me when I glanced at my speedometer then and had a shock and quickly took my foot off the pedal.
Yup, it happened to me too. For some reason, one just don't feel the speed when there is no traffic.ChiefKiasu:
perhaps becos I was only away for a short while, It was not necessary to adapt back to sg standards. Anyway, tin Brisbane city area, the traffic condition is similar to ours. So crowded, so congested, so built up, how to speed? Can't even move beyond 70km/hr.Whenever I get back to Singapore after driving for a couple of weeks in the US, I always feel that the speeds here are WAAY too slow. But after a couple of days of driving on skinny lanes and curvy roads, I quickly adapted back to the 80-90kmh range. It is just NOT possible to keep driving at a sustained speed beyond 100kmh for very long in Singapore, unless you do it after midnight and on highways.
I have just screened through those posts relating to my speeding. And I realized that two who said they ever drove 130km/hr or beyond had overseas driving experience. And those who condemn, are those who keep harping on Singapore context. That drives me back to my earlier question - why nobody ask where/how/why I rammed up to 130km/hr?
Or hey, did I say I did that in sg?
Because I usually ply roads with speed limit is like 70km/hr (like Adam road) to 90km/hr (like some parts of pie), isn't 80km/hr on Adam road speeding?
But it is not like it is sinfully fast and irresponsible mah. At least to me but to quote someone who have mentioned - I do not expect everyone to think like me. If not, I would have been issue a summon or hurl me to court by that garmen body in sin ming dr, instead of receiving a warning letter. But i very guai, whenever i drive along adam road, i keep my speed within 70-80km/hr.
This incident also makes me understand one thing - our opinion/judgement can be shaped by what we think based on a piece of a puzzle (instead of the whole picture). Not very wise/right... And I would keep this in mind.
Lastly, I probably won't respond to any further comments/crtiticisms on my 130km/hr. This is an open forum, every member is entitled to their opinion but I don't owe anyone an obligation to explain. At least that's what I feel. -
kylene:
omg. I tend to agree with your mom - don't even raise the topic to her. Personally, I think the relationship with in laws (ESP mil) is very sensitive, takes much toll and years to build but can crumble within seconds by something small.
What if the person I have to stand up to is my MIL? She likes to 贪小便宜. For eg she'll say my son is 2 when in fact he is 3 yrs old to avoid paying entrance fees to zoo, science centre etc. There was once he broke a toy and she brought the toy back to the store demanding a refund by saying the toy was already broken when he opened it.
My mom advised that these are \"small\" things and I shouldn't quarrel with MIL over them. But I don't feel right doing these and is worried about my son picking up the wrong values.
My mil has a bad habit of \"getting the most value out of the price of her holiday package\" ( not that she pays for any of them for the past 7 years or so). In my in laws' home, u can find xx hotel towel/shampoo/tissue box/glasses. U get the drift?
I generally don't agree with such habits Although i think a few more tissue paper in the pocket after checking out is fine. Or even the shampoo/toothbrush/slippers/matches are ok. Towels and glasses are not.
But I don't tell her off. I just don't join her or contribute to her Loot. -
Imami:
Lastly, I probably won't respond to any further comments/crtiticisms on my 130km/hr. This is an open forum, every member is entitled to their opinion but I don't owe anyone an obligation to explain. At least that's what I feel.
Glad you are back to clarify the speeding topic.
I was asking hubby is it possible to drive at 130km/hr in Sg? He says unlikely on normal roads, maybe a long stretch and quiet expressway. He admitted he once tried 140km/hr on a new TPE many years ago.
So, I be seeing you at Breakfast thread tmr? miss you leh
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Blessedwife:
Actually I think most of us just do not agree with people who choose to ignore other's safety by exceeding the speed limit.
I think ALL of us do not agree with people who are speeding. Perhaps the level of our 'acceptance' of that person's speeding action differs... ('acceptance' here is defined as accepting that person as who he is, a 'speeder' (matured adult) who can only change if he wants to and not a 'speeder' who can be 'talked' into no speeding by 'kind advice'.)Blessedwife:
For example, if any of your relatives met with an accident (touch wood) so can we say \"it's fated Lar, who ask the person to be so suay?\" NO !
emmm...to tell you honestly...even if any of my kids were to be hit by a reckless driver in an accident, I may heartbreak for a while but then I will still accept 'gracefully' and move on. 怨天尤人 is just not the way to live lives under any circumstances coz whatever happened had happened (the same as if any accident happens to me, my kiddos are expected to move on and not to stand still to 怨天尤人 excessively...)
maybe we move on to killer litter, those who throw heavy items out from their windows and hit and killed strangers. these people obviously not supposed to do this kind of things but they chose to do, so what can one do if really suay suay kena hit? isn't it fated to be at the wrong place at the wrong time? -
insider:
I tend to agree with sleepy that the young lady should put in more thoughts for the mum. (sorry sleepy, I was quite pissed by your earlier post hence my response was bad.)
No, this part my sis has to compromise.sleepy:
Your sis is right to be worried. I can totally empathise with her concern. And I don't think it's an unduly worry in your sister's situation.
Actually I think your niece should put in more thoughts for her mum. If she knew her mum is worried sick about her going on such trips, why can't she compromise? It's part of filial piety too, isn't it?
It seems like missionary work is my niece's calling and I sort of can see she making it 'big' in this area. She needs the exposure and the experience. (later I may sponsor her for her Masters in Social Service when she is ready.)
Putting my niece in any other job that appears 'safer' may clip her wings forever and I cannot agree. This is similar to if I were to ask my son not climb high mountains or dive deep seas and then coz I worried, he better go and do some more 'earthy' jobs. That may 'lengthen' my son's life with higher probability but that will affect his quality of life.
My niece gives her filial piety via 'lies' at this moment...(i don't wish my son to lie to me that he is going for a shopping trip when he is actually treking in a remote jungle.)
My sis is the one who needs to change for this case (even if my niece were to later maybe die in overseas) coz to love means to let go completely...
PS:
These are all very good discussion points...
Insider probably thinks that \"it's in her\" and hence, mum shd give way. And also, back to the seedling theory, mum should not \"think too much\".
During my growing up years, my parents (father in particular) had their fair share of worry for their brood. One of my bro went through a stage of \"I need to lie to go where I want\". In those days when mobile phones (or even pagers) are scarce, really quite difficult to contact someone. This bro lied about going to outward bound camp when he was actually at east coast chalet for that few days.dunno why picha lobang. For that few days my mother kept trying to contact his friends to find out where he was but to no avail. Imagine the worry built up over days. Come back, sure Kenna jialat jialat.
When he was back, 家法伺候。that was the only time I ever saw my mum so fierce and upset and my bro so in pain and cried so loud. At the end of the wallop session, they actually could come to a consensus - my mum would let him go anywhere he want. The condition is he cannot lie to her anymore. It was very amazing to me, even as a young kid. Now as a parent, still quite amazing. I am not sure if I can do it when it's my son's turn,
I learnt well, having seen someone walked the path. I had my share of \"aiya, I know la. I will take care.\". I was enlightened by someone one day to think about why/how my parents reacted in this manner and what I could have done to elevate their worry.
After hearing that person out, I didn't have any solution to what I could do to improve things (except to stop doing what my parents may not like) but I began to understand how/why my parents reacted in this way. So I try to support my action by explaining what precaution I take.
So in this situation, I tend to think the niece should do her part. But wait, maybe she did all there is reasonably to be done but still..... -
Jennifer:
it is possible to do 130km/hr in sg expressway but it probably cannot sustained for long and also, the chance of doing it is slim. Besides, there are too many bends and turns to seriously do 130km/hr without putting one in harm's way.
Glad you are back to clarify the speeding topic.
I was asking hubby is it possible to drive at 130km/hr in Sg? He says unlikely on normal roads, maybe a long stretch and quiet expressway. He admitted he once tried 140km/hr on a new TPE many years ago.
So, I be seeing you at Breakfast thread tmr? miss you leh
Only during mid night, I guess. Where got no car de, on sg road. Even when I drove back from kkh at 3.30am one night, also got car. How to speed?
Oh, u also reading this... Then you never come and 踢我一脚 also? :evil:
I need to catch up a lot of the breakfast/supper/dinner/lunch threads! :rotflmao: I thought only work and house chores will built up. Now ksp readings also will built up!
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