PSLE 2012 - Results Discussion
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Let me join you all in your boat now. Headache! The "all schools are bagus" slogan seems to be v difficult to go into my head…
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slmkhoo:
This is the crux of the matter. The opportunities , teachers, materials, environment varies greatly in today's education system. Reassessing part I agree.
It doesn't say that it will endeavour to have every child score the same (top) mark. The assumption of several (many) here seems to be that given the same opportunities, teachers, materials, environment etc, every child can do equally well. I can vouch for the fact that this is not the case - my 2 kids have identical environment, support, teaching etc etc available to them, but one consistently underperforms compared to the other by a large margin, even though she works harder and longer hours. I do support the idea of good provision and support for all, but what is best for any individual child also varies from child to child. If I provided and coached my 2 kids the same way, either one would be dead bored or the other would quite lost. So I come down on the side of some separation into ability groups. However, I would like to see these groupings re-assessed from year to year so a particular group is not singled out as 'smart' or 'slow' for the rest of their school lives.cherryc:
MOE states that :
Our goal in education is to provide every child with the opportunity to develop holistically and maximise his or her potential. In creating opportunities for all, MOE will ensure that every school is a good school.[/color]
Probably some will get more opportunities ? Education is a child's basic right . Sports , arts , you have a choice…. -
sinoboy:
Erm, many geppers also go through GAT for DSA. Just like those who apply through other domains. And i'm personally aware that not all geppers get COs; top schs are selective and are not as 'indiscriminating' as many parents presume.
Agree not targeting the GEP. Just that some top schools pre-selected these students using DSA on the assumption that they are truly gifted. It would be a fairer system if GEPpers are put to the test at PSLE to see how truly 'gifted' they are.
Definitely OT already! -
sinoboy:
Agree not targeting the GEP. Just that some top schools pre-selected these students using DSA on the assumption that they are truly gifted. It would be a fairer system if GEPpers are put to the test at PSLE to see how truly 'gifted' they are.Melodies:
[quote=\"CKmum\"]Why r some parents here getting narrow minded about d GEppers n keep targeting them juz becos their own children r nt?
Those parents are not narrow minded and they are voicing up for the betterment of education system so that MOE can take all into consideration and make the best decision to tweak the current education system. Our dc either from mainstream or from GEP will benefit from the system eventually.
Actually 'gifted' or '天才' might be a wrong word to use. They are academically strong but some of them could be just plain study machines. For those old enough to remember, first batches were opt-in gifted scheme based on PSLE results. Some of them that I came across (now late 30s and some early 40s) developed such superior complex they are difficult to work or live with ending up unmarried despite maybe financially strong. Other less 'gifted' ones get so tired in the rat race they get burnt out by university. Perhaps MOE can trace some of these people to see what state they are in now.
Some of the reality and recommendation would definitely not go well with some parents whose kids are in the GEP programs and had spent substantial time and financial commitment to grooming these kids. But if changes are necessary then better now than never.
[/quote]My views to Singapore Conversation:
------------------------------
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 7:19 PM PST Our Singapore Conversation wrote:
>
>
>Dear XXX
>
>Thank you for taking the time and effort to pen
>down and share your thoughts and ideas about the DSA process, and how to
>tweak processes and procedures to make it more equitable. We understand
>that the selection criteria for children to secondary school and the
>PSLE examinations are of as much importance to parents as they are to
>the children who are taking the examinations, and your suggestions are
>well taken!
>
>We will take your views into consideration as we continue
>organising the dialogue sessions to develop a collective vision for the
>future. Specific policy ideas will also be deliberated at a later stage,
>as we involve Singaporeans in a series of discussions on how to achieve
>our collective vision together.
>
>The Our Singapore Conversation is an
>opportunity for us to reaffirm what is good and relevant; recalibrate in
>areas where we might have gone off course; and refresh to break new
>ground. Would you be keen to participate in one of these dialogues? I
>think that your experiences and ideas would be a valuable contribution
>to the conversation.
>
>Please consider registering for a session at
>https://www.oursgconversation.sg/lets-talk-2/signup/ [1].
>
>Thank you
>once again, and do also encourage your friends to take part in this
>national conversation on Singapore's future.
>
>Warm regards,
>
>Tim @ Our
>Singapore Secretariat
>
>On 2012-11-20 15:00, Weng Chi Kuan wrote:
>
>>
>Dear Sirs,
>>
>> The topic on reducing stress for the PSLE exam has
>stirred emotions considerably and it is almost impossible to find a
>solution that satisfy everyone.
>>
>> I have a son who took his PSLE
>exam this year and is anxiously waiting for his results this Thursday.
>Having gone through the process with him, I wish to offer some thoughts
>on the process of secondary admission to make it fairer.
>>
>> With the
>introduction of Direct School Admission (DSA), the MOE has given schools
>a certain degree of discretion in admitting students that have special
>abilities in other areas, such as sports. Although this gives a student
>a \"better\" chance of being admitted to a Elite or Top school, I strongly
>feel the system can be made more equitable.
>>
>> My son has also gone
>through the DSA route, but unfortunately, he was unsuccessful.
>Nevertheless, the experience I gained from the process I hope to share
>with you.
>>
>> By reading through forums like Kiasuparents, I have
>gathered that many parents have used the DSA process as an \"insurance\"
>policy. Many would apply for multiple schools through DSA and quite a
>number of them have been successful in more than one schools. As they
>only decides whether to accept the \"Confirmed Offer\" after they have
>taken the PSLE exam, such hoarding of places have denied other equally
>deserving students of getting into their \"Dream\" schools.
>>
>> For
>those that have \"Confirmed Offers\", they will obviously be less stressedm
>when taking their PSLE exam, compared to those that did not gain entry
>into any schools through DSA (or those that did not apply for DSA), as
>they can fall back on the \"Confirmed Offers\" given to them. This will
>cause an unlevel playing field for these two sets of students taking the
>PSLE exam. For those that do not have a \"Confirmed Offer\" through DSA,
>they will have to slog it out in the DO-OR-DIE PSLE exam. Obviously,
>this will add on to the stress level that MOE is trying so hard to
>lessen.
>>
>> Currently, successful DSA applicants will decide whether
>to accpet the \"Confirmed Offers\" ONLY after they sat for their PSLE
>exam. If they felt that they did no do too well, then they can decide
>after the PSLE exam to accept the \"Confirmed Offers\" and need not wait
>for the release of PSLE results. Why are they given such an Advantage
>over students that are unsuccessful in their DSA or those that did not
>apply?? To eradicate this anomaly, successful DSA applicants must decide
>whether to accept the \"Confirmed Offer\" before sitting for the PSLE
>exam. If they don't want to accept the \"Confirmed Offer\", then they must
>compete Fairly with everyone else in the PSLE exam to gain entry into
>their \"Dream\" schools.
>>
>> Also, applying for DSA can be an expensive
>affair. For example, ACS Independent charges $80.00 and School of
>Science and Technology $95.00 to take the placement tests. This can be a
>huge burden to not-so-well-to-do families. In other words, the process
>favours the better-off families that can afford to apply for multiple
>DSAs. For those that cannot afford, then they will have less chances of
>getting the schools they wanted via DSA.
>>
>> In DSA exercises, some
>Elite schools have separate admission criteria for Gifted Education
>Programme (GEP) and Mainstream students. Although the GEP programme has
>been well-debated over the years, should we still want to differentiate
>the two sets of students gaiing admission into secondary schools. I feel
>that this should be abolished so that admission will be fair to all
>students. If need be, after the students enter secondary schools, they
>can be re-sorted and exceptionally academically bright students can be
>offered special programmes. As we know, GEP students are exposed to
>higher-order exposures in the various subjects and I am sure most take
>Math Olympiad courses which will give them an a Clear advantage over
>students in the Mainstream.
>>
>> Although I support MOE's DSA approach
>to offer students different pathways into their \"dream\" schools, clearly
>the system has to be tweaked to make it fairer. The following is my
>humble suggestion:
>>
>> 1) limit the number of DSA applications
>(perhaps to a maximum of 2)
>> 2) make it less expensive to take the DSA
>placement tests
>> 3) students given \"Confirmed Offers\" via DSA MUST
>decide whether to accept the offer prior to sitting for the PSLE exam.
>Those that do not want to accept the \"Confirmed Offer\" must give up ASAP
>(ie, shorten the deadline than currently) to prevent hoarding of school
>places and free them up for students that really want them.
>> 4) sort
>out students given \"Confirmed Offers\" via DSA early. Those who decide to
>give up their \"Confirmed Offers\" will compete with everyone else to gain
>admission into their \"Dream\" schools through the PSLE exam in an
>equitable environment.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> XXX
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Links:
>------
>[1]
>https://www.oursgconversation.sg/lets-talk-2/signup/ -
Desserts:
Let me join you all in your boat now. Headache! The \"all schools are bagus\" slogan seems to be v difficult to go into my head..
Me too,Desserts. My feeling now is:- I created and nurtured her, and now I am destroying her.
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enoawng:
I'm puzzled too. Could it be 1 or 2 schools producing too many top scorers and thus pulling others down?Coolkidsrock2:
This seems to be true for 5 kids I know, out by at least 1 big figure from expectations.
True for my DD. But what does this mean?
1. Cohort mean score has gone up
2. number students having 260+ t-score have increased significantly. -
slmkhoo:
Nicely said!
It doesn't say that it will endeavour to have every child score the same (top) mark. The assumption of several (many) here seems to be that given the same opportunities, teachers, materials, environment etc, every child can do equally well. I can vouch for the fact that this is not the case - my 2 kids have identical environment, support, teaching etc etc available to them, but one consistently underperforms compared to the other by a large margin, even though she works harder and longer hours. I do support the idea of good provision and support for all, but what is best for any individual child also varies from child to child. If I provided for and coached my 2 kids the same way, either one would be dead bored or the other would be quite lost. So I come down on the side of some separation into ability groups. However, I would like to see these groupings re-assessed from year to year so a particular group is not singled out as 'smart' or 'slow' for the rest of their school lives.cherryc:
MOE states that :
Our goal in education is to provide every child with the opportunity to develop holistically and maximise his or her potential. In creating opportunities for all, MOE will ensure that every school is a good school.[/color]
Probably some will get more opportunities ? Education is a child's basic right . Sports , arts , you have a choice….
Re-assessing year to year... may create more stress for parents who are competitive and strive always to be at the top. -
Sad Person:
I thought that the paper was easy but then my marks was unexpected low... What Happened?? :? :?:
my dd did nt consider it easy but managable, she had the exam jitters too... surprisingly she obtained higher then i expected. Some had all stars but cried to see score below their expectatons. No one is the same . -
moonee:
* does not matter unless it is all *(stars). Only the t-score matters.Sad Person:
I thought that the paper was easy but then my marks was unexpected low... What Happened?? :? :?:
my dd did nt consider it easy but managable, she had the exam jitters too... surprisingly she obtained higher then i expected. Some had all stars but cried to see score below their expectatons. No one is the same .
There can be 10-100 students have the same t-score depending on where you are in the bell curve. -
oldies:
I'm puzzled too. Could it be 1 or 2 schools producing too many top scorers and thus pulling others down?[/quote]Nobody to answer our questions. Don't know where to find the answers.Very stunned n puzzled.enoawng:
[quote=\"Coolkidsrock2\"]This seems to be true for 5 kids I know, out by at least 1 big figure from expectations.
True for my DD. But what does this mean?
1. Cohort mean score has gone up
2. number students having 260+ t-score have increased significantly.
My daughter was in the top 10 range in her school. Now the others who were far behind has overtaken her.
Now I know how the hare, in the tortoise and hare story, felt after the tortoise had won(though we did not fell asleep like the tortoise).
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