Choosing and Evaluating Primary Schools
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Ahh, now that you've explained more, I am beginning to see where you are coming from. I suppose everyone's motivation and idea of a good school is different. Ultimately, as long as parents can bear the consequences of their choices, then it's most important, of course if the kids can't really cope, hope their parents can find ways to help them.
I can't comment abt SJIJ parents today as your descriptions of them sound so different from my family members and friends, but then again what do I know as their boys graduated a while back. And since your child is still there, what you say, may sadly be true.
Again, thanks for providing your insights and all the best with your child's P1 registration!Taran80\" post_id=\"2033500\" time=\"1628309211\" user_id=\"192302:
Thanks for sharing, you certainly pointed out several good points and examples. Esp true in cases of students in elite schools + tuition and still scoring low in PSLE, while there are others from neighbourhood schools scoring 270++ These things happen. I do, however feel there are a few areas in which your general assumptions are oversimplified.
a) I believe not everyone moves house for the sole purpose of sending their kids to highly academic pressure cooker school like Nanyang Primary (since you mentioned that particular school). Parents move house for for many other reasons (ie choosing religious schools or Clan based schools for their kids' character development/traditional values/religion). Next, there are also people I know who need to move because the only schools in their areas (1-2km) are elite school and lower end school which you suggest not to apply. There are also parents who move to be within 1km from their old primary schools to ensure entry. So, if they are moving because of whatever schools they want and can afford it, I don't see why not. Not all parents are keen to send their kids to schools that are 14km away from home.
a) I guess to make things a bit more clearer. The post was not intended to educate those with genuine reasons for shifting locations but more to those who deliberately do it, hoping to get a head start in life. This a a myth. There is no such thing as a head start. This is what I have been explaining all along. Head start in life is the moment you are born smarter and more intelligent than other babies around you. Period. It is not influenced by the school you go to. So I have no complains against those whom do it for genuine reasons but those whom purposely move less than a km away (when they have no previous links with the school), or teachers suddenly teaching a secondary school then next you hear they they have become primary school teachers (of one of the top 20 popular primary school cause their kid has just been born) or even parents volunteering when clearly they are doing it not cause of passion but more cause of a requirement. This is my case of argument. At the end all of this effort goes to waste when from being in the top 20 primary schools, these kids cannot even make it to to top 50 secondary schools cause their grades are not good enough when compared to the whole population. Why not start with humble beginnings and work you way up. Perfect example is Pritam Singh. He started with humble beginnings and is probably more successful and most or every single one of us. Something to ponder about.
b) If you had looked through SJIJ thread, you would realize a lot of parents did/do not plan to send their boys for SJIJ's academic ranking, but rather for its well balanced curriculum and happy environment.
b) I have to disagree with this. This is what they claim and write but when you meet them in person the body language, and they way they portray themselves, you can clearly see they do not care about the happy environment. There are some, those parents are artist or are into sports and one parent whom I met will be migrating when the kid finishes his PSLE that do not really care and prefer the happy environment. It may be a bit harsh for me to say this but most are throwing a smoke screen (I have no way of proving this but is just the body language and how they come across. It likes your CV when applying for a job. Everyone makes it seems they are the most appropriate candidate but when the interview takes places, you realize a lot of stuff in there is a fluff.)
c) Yes, I have no doubt about it. But PSLE result is not the only factor in primary school life. Like it or not, we have to admit that being in Nanyang exposes students to myriad of interesting activities, and experiencing the pride of being part of school with strong history and heritage is not something the kids can get in any random ABC school.
c) I guess there is some truth to it but again what is culture and heritage? These keep changing when the principal and school teachers change. After 30 years of changing principals and school teachers the new group might not even care about heritage. Its just radiating out of the walls, that all. Some part if it is retained but a lot of it gets lost as the baton changes hands. Alot of teachers are not so passionate as say 30 years ago. They do this cause the salary is good. Again I cannot prove the numbers, it just boils down to the vibes you get from them after discussion. If there is no passion then other things like heritage and culture have no purpose as these qualities will not radiate from the teachers.
Thks for sharing your thoughts as well. I just completed phase 2C of my second child. -
All the best and good luck!
Touch_me_not\" post_id=\"2033594\" time=\"1628385105\" user_id=\"187786:
Never look far, can see the school from my bedroom, but problem is not sure if we can win the next door's school lottery lah 😱😱🤣🤣
Zeal mummy\" post_id=\"2033571\" time=\"1628356176\" user_id=\"58173:[quote=\"Zeal mummy\" post_id=2033571 time=1628356176 user_id=58173]
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Hi all, may I know how to choose from Yishun Primary and Xishan Primary? Which one is better? Thank you!
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zac's mum\" post_id=\"2033598\" time=\"1628385563\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2033598 time=1628385563 user_id=53606]
Hear, hear! :please:SG_KP1\" post_id=\"2033593\" time=\"1628384427\" user_id=\"188234:
True, that. Eg I knew my kid would be average academically. And he is (nothing has changed). I do not blame the school, nor do I think he would have scored better had he gone to a primary school with better / worse track record). He is, however, happy to go to school daily, which is not the case for his peers who entered schools that were unfortunately not the right fit for them.My two cents from observing a bit:
a) If parents want to move heaven and earth to get their kid into a certain school, by all means go ahead. I think what is sometimes missed in these discussions is that the popular schools may be attractive to certain people for reasons beyond academics. I think many parents acknowledge this upfront. Unfortunately, at the end of 6 years PSLE scores seem to dominate the thinking as to whether it was \"worth it.\" I would argue this doesn't have to be the case.
b) IMO, what is not well understood (by all) is that even if a school has a track record of producing X% of the cohort scoring above Y, this does not mean each kid walking through the gate on the first day of P1 has the same X% chance. At certain schools, some of these kids may already have a ~90% chance of breaking Y, and that would probably be true regardless of where you put them. The corollary is that for every kid with odds above X%, one has odds below X%.
What is unclear to me is whether (or how much) any particular school i) increases your maximum potential score or ii) increases the probability that you reach your potential, whatever it may be. For example, RI/HCI have a much higher % of kids scoring 90 at A Levels than other JCs. Is it the school, teachers, facilities, resources, programmes, etc? Or did these two schools enroll a bunch more kids that had a higher probability of scoring 90 to begin with?* I.e. most students who scored 90 at these two schools would have scored 90 wherever they went to JC. It just happens these students selected RI/HCI. Honestly, I have no idea what the answer is and I don't know that the question can even be answered.
But the same question exists at the primary level; if any particular school has 25%-50%(?) of the cohort scoring above Y, is the difference vs. the national average of Z% scoring above Y all due to the school/school environment or did parents/kids with certain characteristics seek out these schools (more so than average) and most would have scored above Y regardless of where they went? Like many things in life, there is probably bits of truth to both.
All that being said, I think most acknowledge that being in any particular school is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for either high scores or more broadly \"doing well\" in school/life/social development. But that doesn't mean the attraction of certain schools is \"pointless\" either. Regardless of where your kids end up, just support them and help them reach whatever their potential is (my kids didn't/don't go to famous schools but I support(ed) the school and I am happy with how they've done/are doing). In the long run, all of this only matters so much...
*to be clear, I don't think scoring 90 at A Levels is the be all and end all, and many kids at other JCs will end up doing better at A Levels and in uni/life than kids in RI/HCI. I also have no idea how my kid(s) will score if they make it to take A Levels.
It’s a hard call for parents to gauge when the kid is only K2, not all will be accurate. Just don’t let your child suffer for too long if you figure out along the way that the school is the wrong fit. Transfer out if need be. Sometimes the child is miserable in school and the confidence takes a beating. That’s an awful way to remember one’s primary school years.[/quote]
My two cents worth. Elder niece went to top brand-name primary school. She had tuition in every subject, was very competitive with her classmates, her self worth completely tied up in rankings vs her classmates. Ended up with a habit of cutting her arms and \"hating\" her parents. According to her dad, this was common among her group of friends, who live in landed/condo, had lots of tuition, all had psychological issues.
Just seems to me the parents' anxiety fed into the child's mind and personality, and ended up dangerously close to becoming unhealthy adults. As a millenial, not a boomer, makes me kinda sad.
:siam: -
kiasudad1\" post_id=\"2036095\" time=\"1630474526\" user_id=\"193855:
Hear, hear! :please:
True, that. Eg I knew my kid would be average academically. And he is (nothing has changed). I do not blame the school, nor do I think he would have scored better had he gone to a primary school with better / worse track record). He is, however, happy to go to school daily, which is not the case for his peers who entered schools that were unfortunately not the right fit for them.zac's mum\" post_id=\"2033598\" time=\"1628385563\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2033598 time=1628385563 user_id=53606]
My two cents from observing a bit:
a) If parents want to move heaven and earth to get their kid into a certain school, by all means go ahead. I think what is sometimes missed in these discussions is that the popular schools may be attractive to certain people for reasons beyond academics. I think many parents acknowledge this upfront. Unfortunately, at the end of 6 years PSLE scores seem to dominate the thinking as to whether it was \"worth it.\" I would argue this doesn't have to be the case.
b) IMO, what is not well understood (by all) is that even if a school has a track record of producing X% of the cohort scoring above Y, this does not mean each kid walking through the gate on the first day of P1 has the same X% chance. At certain schools, some of these kids may already have a ~90% chance of breaking Y, and that would probably be true regardless of where you put them. The corollary is that for every kid with odds above X%, one has odds below X%.
What is unclear to me is whether (or how much) any particular school i) increases your maximum potential score or ii) increases the probability that you reach your potential, whatever it may be. For example, RI/HCI have a much higher % of kids scoring 90 at A Levels than other JCs. Is it the school, teachers, facilities, resources, programmes, etc? Or did these two schools enroll a bunch more kids that had a higher probability of scoring 90 to begin with?* I.e. most students who scored 90 at these two schools would have scored 90 wherever they went to JC. It just happens these students selected RI/HCI. Honestly, I have no idea what the answer is and I don't know that the question can even be answered.
But the same question exists at the primary level; if any particular school has 25%-50%(?) of the cohort scoring above Y, is the difference vs. the national average of Z% scoring above Y all due to the school/school environment or did parents/kids with certain characteristics seek out these schools (more so than average) and most would have scored above Y regardless of where they went? Like many things in life, there is probably bits of truth to both.
All that being said, I think most acknowledge that being in any particular school is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for either high scores or more broadly \"doing well\" in school/life/social development. But that doesn't mean the attraction of certain schools is \"pointless\" either. Regardless of where your kids end up, just support them and help them reach whatever their potential is (my kids didn't/don't go to famous schools but I support(ed) the school and I am happy with how they've done/are doing). In the long run, all of this only matters so much...
*to be clear, I don't think scoring 90 at A Levels is the be all and end all, and many kids at other JCs will end up doing better at A Levels and in uni/life than kids in RI/HCI. I also have no idea how my kid(s) will score if they make it to take A Levels.
It’s a hard call for parents to gauge when the kid is only K2, not all will be accurate. Just don’t let your child suffer for too long if you figure out along the way that the school is the wrong fit. Transfer out if need be. Sometimes the child is miserable in school and the confidence takes a beating. That’s an awful way to remember one’s primary school years.
My two cents worth. Elder niece went to top brand-name primary school. She had tuition in every subject, was very competitive with her classmates, her self worth completely tied up in rankings vs her classmates. Ended up with a habit of cutting her arms and \"hating\" her parents. According to her dad, this was common among her group of friends, who live in landed/condo, had lots of tuition, all had psychological issues.
Just seems to me the parents' anxiety fed into the child's mind and personality, and ended up dangerously close to becoming unhealthy adults. As a millenial, not a boomer, makes me kinda sad.
:siam:[/quote]Sometimes parent will tell themselves tht it is common among the kids or not only theor kids do tht, other do it as well but most of the time, it is the way parents are consoling themselves for the shortcoming.
Be it top school or not, the well-being of our own kids is the most important thing. -
Was watching a webinar the other day, and the speaker mentioned (regarding parenting) to observe & monitor the level of your child’s self-worth - how he views himself.
It occurred to me that neither society, nor the education system (which rewards academic achievers, mostly) will be the one to send the message to your child that he or she is a worthy individual. They are going to be told that they never live up to whatever standards, due to ever-shifting goalposts as they progress higher. Today’s number 1 will not remain number 1 forever. Is the entire self-worth going to crumble once the top spot is relinquished to someone else?
It’s our duty as parents to love them unconditionally, simply because they are our children. And we need to specifically tell them so, and often, and live it out in our behavior, otherwise they’d never believe it.
I think many adults suffer from self-esteem problems because it’s a perpetuated generational thing too. -
parent_to_be\" post_id=\"2036098\" time=\"1630475612\" user_id=\"104008:
Sometimes parent will tell themselves tht it is common among the kids or not only theor kids do tht, other do it as well but most of the time, it is the way parents are consoling themselves for the shortcoming.
Hear, hear! :please:kiasudad1\" post_id=\"2036095\" time=\"1630474526\" user_id=\"193855:
[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2033598 time=1628385563 user_id=53606]
True, that. Eg I knew my kid would be average academically. And he is (nothing has changed). I do not blame the school, nor do I think he would have scored better had he gone to a primary school with better / worse track record). He is, however, happy to go to school daily, which is not the case for his peers who entered schools that were unfortunately not the right fit for them.
It’s a hard call for parents to gauge when the kid is only K2, not all will be accurate. Just don’t let your child suffer for too long if you figure out along the way that the school is the wrong fit. Transfer out if need be. Sometimes the child is miserable in school and the confidence takes a beating. That’s an awful way to remember one’s primary school years.
My two cents worth. Elder niece went to top brand-name primary school. She had tuition in every subject, was very competitive with her classmates, her self worth completely tied up in rankings vs her classmates. Ended up with a habit of cutting her arms and \"hating\" her parents. According to her dad, this was common among her group of friends, who live in landed/condo, had lots of tuition, all had psychological issues.
Just seems to me the parents' anxiety fed into the child's mind and personality, and ended up dangerously close to becoming unhealthy adults. As a millenial, not a boomer, makes me kinda sad.
:siam:
Be it top school or not, the well-being of our own kids is the most important thing.[/quote]Thanks. Hard for them to transfer her out to a less stressful school where she could honestly probably top it. They had moved out to a house near the brand name school, took out a big mortgage, have longer commute to work. But the obstacle is mostly the child herself, who will hate herself for transferring to schools that are not \"as elite\" or \"as famous\" as her current one.
It's sad because she was so bright and happy as a young child. -
Given the new p1 registration process that clearly puts 2c in an advantageous position…
1. Should I “move Heaven and earth” (an apt phrase that was used in one of the earlier comments in this thread) for SJIJ? 2b currently more than 2km but if want, have to move to 1km (and might still ballot)
2. Go for st Gabriel’s pri at 2b - also more than 2km but nearer to home
3. Go for Montfort pri at 2b
4. PV for Rosyth at 2b 1km - assuming we get selected
I know, my options r very diverse. Any advice? -
jojobaebee\" post_id=\"2037884\" time=\"1631577446\" user_id=\"160254:
Try apply for Rosyth PV then say. St. Gab 2b sure in and it's good anyway.
Given the new p1 registration process that clearly puts 2c in an advantageous position…
1. Should I “move Heaven and earth” (an apt phrase that was used in one of the earlier comments in this thread) for SJIJ? 2b currently more than 2km but if want, have to move to 1km (and might still ballot)
2. Go for st Gabriel’s pri at 2b - also more than 2km but nearer to home
3. Go for Montfort pri at 2b
4. PV for Rosyth at 2b 1km - assuming we get selected
I know, my options r very diverse. Any advice? -
Forgot to add that my daughter is in pri one at a girls school near hougang/Serangoon.
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