Foreign Workers

[Funz]

Musings:

I think it really depends on the company. I'm sure there are companies who do this. This may be the SMEs who are the most pressured by labour costs. Rising labour costs is a reality all over the world in particular developed countries. This is why MNCs keep relocating manufacturing functions from developing country to an even cheaper developing country. Where we cannot compete on labour cost, we have to make up for it by upgrading to higher end skills/jobs - move to higher end manufacturing. That is why engineering education is also being revolutionised - emphasis on design and more inter-disciplinary.

A well established company understands the need not to compromise their business quality by hiring less than able foreigners simply because they are cheaper. Let's just say that spouse company is not small - one of the biggest foreign investor in Singapore. But the difficulty they face in particular in filling engineering positions (BTW these are not blue collar positions) and skilled technician positions (though not managerial) is that Sporeans shun such jobs. I have personal friends in spouse company (degree holders) who lament about remote location of the plant and quit...Cases like this abound in spouse company. Nobody can fault you for making this personal choice but let's not turn around and slam the foreigner who is willing to come in to take on the job.

The situation in the service industry, restaurants etc is well known - filled with Pinoys, PRCs etc. Again because Sporeans lament about long working hours, standing on their feet all the time, being yelled at by customers etc. I know people who are unemployed and who rather live on hand outs from family, maintenance pay out from ex-spouse etc then to take on service jobs cos' 'lose face', hours too long not because they have no ability. (They show up in church asking for help but we then find that they are not willing to help themselves...)

My point is we cannot generalise and lament all the time that foreigners are taking away jobs. As what forummers have shared, the situation varies from industry to industry and even between companies in each industry.

I sympathise with those who genuinely try to help themselves but find themselves being squeezed out by foreigners but let's not assume that this is always the case. At least from my personal experience, there are many factors for this phenomenon which cannot be blamed on foreigners.

:goodpost:

I agree. Singapore employees have to bear some responsibility for this so called 'hiring of foreigners trend'. Though I will say that it has been blown out of proportion. Jialat gonna get hantam for saying that.

It may be cheaper to employ work permit staff but for S pass and above, it is not cheaper, in fact, it may cost more then hiring a local. But in a lot of cases, locals refuse to take up the job for various reasons. I for one would prefer to hire locals but in the end had no choice but to turn to hiring S pass staff due to lack of locals willing to take on the role.

Put it this way, I would rather use the money that I am paying for levy and insurance to incentivise my staff. And for S pass staff, I am not guaranteed that their passes will be renewed after 2 years due to ever changing criterias. And like what others have mentioned, there are good ones and there are horrible staff. If I were to be unlucky to have an S pass staff disappearing on me, the headache that it will cause, not only to replace the manpower but the possible legal implications are tedious. So why if most employers can find reliable local staff, would they subject themselves to such inconveniences and uncertainties.

We are constantly hiring, whenever we place an ad in the papers for recruitment, we get 10 calls from foreigners and only maybe 1 call from locals. We will be like waahhhh jackpot, at least one local responded. But the frustrating thing is, that local will not turn up for the scheduled interview. Worse still, they turn up, we decide to hire them, they sign the employment letter, but on the day that they are suppose to start work, they don't turn up and are uncontactable. This is what I, my suppliers, my business partners and even friends who run their own businesses are experiencing.

Ok, wrote too much oredi. Gonna kenna .

[tankee]

for some jobs that Singaporean & Malaysian shy away, there is no choice but to turn to foreign workers to supplement the shortfall.

[KSP]

markfch:

verykiasu2010:

my real life experience : got a SG citizen for the post of FC - he was very scheming, late for work, make false claims on expenses etc etc.....fed up - got a PR in at half the price, very hard working & trust worthy - he got promoted to my position after my promotion

You are a brave man, vk2010; to say things that others don't like to hear.

So now you're promoted to CFO, COO, CIO or CEO?

CFO or Finance VP.... since the FC - Financial Controller got promoted to Finance Director.....

[verykiasu2010]

KSP:

markfch:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]
my real life experience : got a SG citizen for the post of FC - he was very scheming, late for work, make false claims on expenses etc etc.....fed up - got a PR in at half the price, very hard working & trust worthy - he got promoted to my position after my promotion

You are a brave man, vk2010; to say things that others don't like to hear.

So now you're promoted to CFO, COO, CIO or CEO?

CFO or Finance VP.... since the FC - Financial Controller got promoted to Finance Director.....[/quote]the highest position starts with letter 'R', get it ?

[limlim]

Musings:

A well established company understands the need not to compromise their business quality by hiring less than able foreigners simply because they are cheaper. Let's just say that spouse company is not small - one of the biggest foreign investor in Singapore. But the difficulty they face in particular in filling engineering positions (BTW these are not blue collar positions) and skilled technician positions (though not managerial) is that Sporeans shun such jobs. I have personal friends in spouse company (degree holders) who lament about remote location of the plant and quit...Cases like this abound in spouse company. Nobody can fault you for making this personal choice but let's not turn around and slam the foreigner who is willing to come in to take on the job.

You're talking about plants in isolated locations, very specific cases. In those instance, I do not totally disagree with companies employing foreigners because they cannot get locals. But still, they can always up the salary to make up for the inconveniences. If an employee staying in pasir ris got the same offer, one at tuas the other at tampines, of coz they'll choose the tampines one given the same pay. But if the tuas plant is playing 20% more, it could meant a different story.

The case I'm referring to is factories in town area.. There'll be no lack of local applicants. Still, company likes foreigners bcoz they are cheaper.

In any cases, it just boils down to costs.

If the plants refuse to employee locals, they should simply just move to other countries, since it is no lost to locals anyway for they are not giving jobs here. The fact that they remains here means that there most be something that attracts them here, such as security or obedient workers.. And, it is fair that they pay a premium for the \"benefits\" that they derive from this little red dot.

[limlim]

tankee:

for some jobs that Singaporean & Malaysian shy away, there is no choice but to turn to foreign workers to supplement the shortfall.

Actually, I support having FW for these areas, bcoz essentially locals doesn't want to do it.

But I'm against flooding the little island with cheap half-bucket foreigners for PMETs positions.. taking away jobs and suppressing wages for work that locals WANTED to do.

[limlim]

Musings:

I have personal friends in spouse company (degree holders) who lament about remote location of the plant and quit...Cases like this abound in spouse company. Nobody can fault you for making this personal choice but let's not turn around and slam the foreigner who is willing to come in to take on the job.

If there is no foreigners, the company can still get locals for, say, additional 20% salary. It is the presence of these foreigners that prevented the company from rising wages to attract suitable local talents.

So, why can't locals slam the foreigners who is willing to come CHEAP and took away the job that would else go to locals at premium wage?

[limlim]

Funz:

I agree. Singapore employees have to bear some responsibility for this so called 'hiring of foreigners trend'. Though I will say that it has been blown out of proportion. Jialat gonna get hantam for saying that.

Ok, wrote too much oredi. Gonna kenna .

It's easy to just give a vague account of how difficult it is to employ locals..

Why don't you state what are the job scope, working hours and the salary that you're paying to allow viewers to better judge the situation?

Let the facts speak for itself.

There are companies offering $900/mth for 10hrs working hours in some ulu places and complaining that they cannot find local workers. How you expect locals to survive on $900/mth?

Is locals asking for too much?

[verykiasu2010]

limlim:

If the plants refuse to employee locals, they should simply just move to other countries, since it is no lost to locals anyway for they are not giving jobs here. The fact that they remains here means that there most be something that attracts them here, such as security or obedient workers.. And, it is fair that they pay a premium for the \"benefits\" that they derive from this little red dot.

more like locals refuse to work there rather than company refuses to employ locals.

yes, cost is an issue and it is not simply no loss to locals ...... economics is not simple

don't forget the saga of PSA versus Maersk Lines ......the collateral damage was huge as it resulted in huge retrenchment in the supporting industries, many thousands jobs were lost as the supporting industries got no more biz and had to scale down or shut down....some biz went bankrupt.....not merely loss of terminal-usage revenue by PSA when Maersk moved out.... so, don't be so short sighted. To you, it is just a salary, may be 20% more or 20% less as you quoted. To the larger economy, the spin off that would be lost is much larger

on the other hand, when the biz is sustained even though by foreign workers, the supporting industries and biz services benefited and grow, no retrenchments....you don't benefit is okay and in any case you don't want it.

got to look at the larger picture

[verykiasu2010]

limlim:

verykiasu2010:

$4k per month finance assistant position (below manager rank) in Jurong, 5 day week, no OT, factory transport aircon coach provided

Sounds quite good leh..

Don't know why, companies always complain that no Singaporeans want to take the jobs or they are too picky, but based on the salaries, benefits given, like so good leh.. I would want to take the job, and I know many of the pple around me would want to take the job, but.. would the company employ us??

Those that the companies want, doesn't want the job, but those that want the job, the companies doesn't want.. Essentially, a mis-match of expectations? Is it fair to just say that Singaporeans are choosy? For every 10 Singaporeans that reject a $4k job, I believe, 1000 Singaporeans wants the job badly..

$4k is so much higher than many engineering/technical jobs requiring a degree!

ok.. OT too much.. but just find it difficult to accept/understand why those pple reject the $4k job..

many this kind of examples lah