Is GEP really necessary?
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Sun_2010:
Perhaps it is not made public. But is it readily available in the first place, for whoever is interested to find out?toddles:
I'm sure there have been many internal studies by the GE unit in MOE.... just that the findings are never made public.
I think so too.
The point is do they need to be made public?
Do most of us have the ability/expertise to judge the data?
I think not.
To some all GEPpers have to be successful, to some most, and to some if even 30% have greatly benefitted it is a success.
To some PSLE score is a criteria of success, to some it is not.
To me personally, the System needs tweeking. Specially the selection process such that hothousing doesnt help.
Is there a criteria on WHO is accessible to the data? What is the criteria?
You are right that everyone has their opinion of what success is. So what is MOE's gauge of success? 30%?
What HVR said struck a chord in me. How are we to know, that a hothoused kid - who enjoys attending all the lessons and doing the worksheets or whatever, is not Gifted naturally? So what IF the child has been sent to GEP preparation classes? And how are we to know, say, after we add an interview, that the child is naturally gifted or not - like what if he has selective mutism or some other forms of social anxiety that has not been identified yet which he ended up not saying a word during the interview? Then what? Go through a different test next? Or simply, \"Next!\"
I don't really have much to say, because I find that we do not have sufficient information to know enough to make any worthy contribution. Anything discussed here is much too abstract, and much to be speculated over. This is how things are like most of the time - the decisions and judgement made behind closed doors, by a few people. -
phtthp:
bec i noticed that this GEP thing had created a lot of jealousy amongst parents.
What makes GEP DIE-DIE-MUST-HAVE?? -
Nebbermind:
Parents. I have 5 kids, not all went for the selection tests by their own choice (I'm not sure who went and who didn't, also not sure whose forms I signed or not signed), and one went into GEP. The ones who are fairing great are the ones who did not go to GEP, with great EQ. They all went on to uni in their teens and fair very well. The one who went to GEP is still an unknown??? As I see it, he is not very different from the ones who didn't, just an extra label, which may or may not help.phtthp:
bec i noticed that this GEP thing had created a lot of jealousy amongst parents.
What makes GEP DIE-DIE-MUST-HAVE??
As I see it, uni students from GEP do not stand out, and I have to ask before I know who is from GEP. They do not necessarily have better skills, think better or have higher order thinking skills, they do not fair worse socially, and there's no more elitism. When others find out they are GEP, there's not much reaction. Question is... what is the fuzz all about, except the chip on the parents' shoulders for that few years?! Irony. -
concern2:
Perhaps it is not made public. But is it readily available in the first place, for whoever is interested to find out?Sun_2010:
[quote=\"toddles\"]I'm sure there have been many internal studies by the GE unit in MOE.... just that the findings are never made public.
I think so too.
The point is do they need to be made public?
Do most of us have the ability/expertise to judge the data?
I think not.
To some all GEPpers have to be successful, to some most, and to some if even 30% have greatly benefitted it is a success.
To some PSLE score is a criteria of success, to some it is not.
To me personally, the System needs tweeking. Specially the selection process such that hothousing doesnt help.
Is there a criteria on WHO is accessible to the data? What is the criteria?
You are right that everyone has their opinion of what success is. So what is MOE's gauge of success? 30%?
What HVR said struck a chord in me. How are we to know, that a hothoused kid - who enjoys attending all the lessons and doing the worksheets or whatever, is not Gifted naturally? So what IF the child has been sent to GEP preparation classes? And how are we to know, say, after we add an interview, that the child is naturally gifted or not - like what if he has selective mutism or some other forms of social anxiety that has not been identified yet which he ended up not saying a word during the interview? Then what? Go through a different test next? Or simply, \"Next!\"
I don't really have much to say, because I find that we do not have sufficient information to know enough to make any worthy contribution. Anything discussed here is much too abstract, and much to be speculated over. This is how things are like most of the time - the decisions and judgement made behind closed doors, by a few people.[/quote]Success? As an educator, it would to help the child find his passion and develop that to the fullest. Of course. The GEP branch told me that with 25 per class, it is impossible to achieve that. I got pissed off with that remark. Even in a class of 100, we are supposed to do that?! What kind of educator do we have in our midst?
Their KPI is to make sure the finish the syllables and show off to the world the kind of awards these kids get. From those meetings, I gather these from their faces, from their remarks, from their tone. So discouraging. It is more important for them to retire with a service award. The kids? I doubt it was ever in their minds. UNLESS, there is some utility. And, they have not qualms about making this known. So sad. -
2ppaamm:
Parents? Meaning it's like some pedigree thing? If the kid gets into GEP, it's a certification of one's good genes??!! :evil:Parents. I have 5 kids, not all went for the selection tests by their own choice (I'm not sure who went and who didn't, also not sure whose forms I signed or not signed), and one went into GEP. The ones who are fairing great are the ones who did not go to GEP, with great EQ. They all went on to uni in their teens and fair very well. The one who went to GEP is still an unknown??? As I see it, he is not very different from the ones who didn't, just an extra label, which may or may not help.
As I see it, uni students from GEP do not stand out, and I have to ask before I know who is from GEP. They do not necessarily have better skills, think better or have higher order thinking skills, they do not fair worse socially, and there's no more elitism. When others find out they are GEP, there's not much reaction. Question is... what is the fuzz all about, except the chip on the parents' shoulders for that few years?! Irony.
Other than this, I guess I can also include :
1) a easier time for DSA at some schools
2) get to transfer to some branded schools
Otherwise, it still a short term thing....just 3 yrs....like u said....What's the fuzz??!! -
Nebbermind:
Yeah, yeah. The funny thing is, many of the GEP parents are... ahem... don't want to mention. There are some folks who are so smart, but their kids are not in GEP. I know of Deans, professors, scientists, lawyers and all, their children find it hard to get into GEP. On the contrary, many other categories (not meaning not smart har... just different categories) manage to get their kids in these days. Very often, stay-at-home-mums. Not that stay-at-home-mums are not smart. Just that those professionals got no time to grill their kids lah.
Parents? Meaning it's like some pedigree thing? If the kid gets into GEP, it's a certification of one's good genes??!! :evil:
Other than this, I guess I can also include :
1) a easier time for DSA at some schools
2) get to transfer to some branded schools
Otherwise, it still a short term thing....just 3 yrs....like u said....What's the fuzz??!!
So, I'm not sure about this pedigree thingy. And I was thinking about this just last night. Wondering how come one is smarter than the other by so much?! Can't be a gene thingy, or I must have picked one up wrongly in the hospital. Hm... but he looks exactly like me. Maybe I picked up 4 wrong ones.
I begin to doubt there's such a thing called genes. The environment and upbringing makes such a big difference as well. The time with the kid, etc etc. If the child is brought up by maids, then.... er....
So, no, I don't agree GEP parents are smarter or gifted, just perhaps more kiasu and better parents. And this is no sour grapes.
Haha, in fact, I predict that in the future, if you tell people you have a GEP kid, they will look at you like you are some kind of tyrant. :siao: -
2ppaamm:
Thanks for sharing, 2ppaamm.
Parents. I have 5 kids, not all went for the selection tests by their own choice (I'm not sure who went and who didn't, also not sure whose forms I signed or not signed), and one went into GEP....Question is... what is the fuzz all about, except the chip on the parents' shoulders for that few years?! Irony.
The general perception is that as long as a particular group of people have been singled out from the mass through some sort of test, that group has to be special. And what more can be more 'prestigious' than to have it called a 'Gifted' programme? Just for that few years is a chance worth taking. Anyway, a parent wouldn't know if anything better or worse could come out of putting his/her child through it, would he? It is only on hindsight that one can tell whether it has been worth the while - and I am sure it differs from parent to parent.
If, from the political point of view, one or two such 'talents' have been spotted, perhaps, it would already be a success.
Too bad the rest didn't make it. Too bad you didn't have sufficient 'training' to score well in PSLE like those in the mainstream. We wish you all the best in your future endeavors 
.
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Just wondering why are parents here paying so much attention on this programme? Some no matter what must try to go in.?
To me this programme gives a kid a little head start that’s all.
Want to spend money attending pre programme, why not engage top tutors to prepare yr kids to score well for A-levels at yr 5 & 6 if you want them to be right ahead of their cohort.
My personal take is just relax and heck care about this programme as it doesn’t matter much anyway. -
Mommies n daddies,
Correct me if I m still in a dreaming state..
May I know what short cuts did MOE gave to the GEPpers? I really dun remember that GE branch telling us that by gg thru the 3 yrs gep program, my child will top psle. If they had, i will be the happiest mom in the world. There is really no promises to any programs in the world. All programs requires ggod efforts n hard work put in to achieve results that one desires. They have to work v hard to balance GEP's projects n mainstream subjects that is the ultimate route to PSLE. If there r any short cuts, I would love to know wat they r.. So far I see the program though can be stressful at times, but my child is enjoying the learning journey so far. At least he is not feeling bored in class like in the past. I just hope that this good feeling will continue on till P6
I m sure there r statistics kept by GE branch on GEPpers progress. Of course parents can question GE branch over theses stats but i dun seen majoority of parents taking such actions. I think if parents in singapore r requesting fir such ino n we r talking abt majority of the patents in singapore, MOE will have to do something abt it. But is such an act necessary? But wat I feel is that these kids r identified to provide them with a different learning environment which might enhanced their learning experience. Of course such experiences can still be achieve thru HA classes in all schs but what abt resources available to cater to so many schs. In the end, it still will create a mad rat race in ALL schs ...perhaps more jealousy among more parents!
No offense to parents who have kids that have learning disability, think of these kids in the way we think of GEPpers. If the education system is all abt fairness n equality, then all shd be in mainstream whether u r better or worse than average. Why the need to indentify different categories of kids so as to cater to their learning needs? Imagine working with a class of 20 kids with all great differences of learning abilities. How do parents want or expects sch or teacher to teach so that their child abilities is being enhanced on? I have been thru such a sysyem n hence seen many cases. There is no end to people's desires. Parents with smarter kids will hope their kids to be better enhance in their ability while there are parents whose child is weaker in learning expects sch to do more to help the child. In a perfect world where resources is abundant, it might be achievable but in almost everywhere in the world, it is not possible. In fact, my experiences n contacts with teachers from many parts of the world will say the same thing. Maybe if there r teachers who r parents here might wan to give their thoughts on this.
GEP is just option available to these group of indentified kids, but child n parents do have the choice of gg for it or not. I had seen quite a few cases of kids not gg for it in my child's ex sch. so it is not by force that they r selected n they must go for it.. If they cannot make it, they can jolly well drop back to main stream .. But yet when a child is identified as having learning disability, the might be rejected by normal mainstream sch, the heartaches n agony of some of these parents n their worries of their child future might not be imaginable to most others.
The part abt hothousing the kids, I can't agree more thAt it shd never happen at all. By hothousing, are we taking abt gep traning classes here? But I m skeptical abt the saying that most GEPpers got into to GEP thru hothousing. :skeptical: As far as i know for the kids i know personally that went into the program were never pre trained n in fact these parents of these kids like me dun even think that our children to get selected at all! Btw, these group of kids i knew r all from different schs. We let our kids go for the selection just for experience. Of course, though no high expectations, there are always room for a tiny fantasy of our child making it into the program. If child is really gifted, then lucky for that child then in a way cos whether he might pull thru or not depends on his development along the next 3 yrs still. If child is not, probably he might struggle, or maybe he might pull thru with more hothousing? But that is the parents' choice to have made their child go thru that unfair treatment, what can we do? Yet we cannot say u r not allowed to send your child for special pre GEP trainings. Send by all means cos it is your choice. Just have to hope for good endings that's all. Ultimately, it all abt making the choice.
I look at the GEP course a test of a child's maturity rather than just ability in math n eng. a child can be v good in both subjects, both if she or he is not muture enough or grown to be matured to handle stuff like managing stress n workload n also interpersonal skills, then they might not benefit much from the program then. As I guide my child thru projects since P1, our focus on not only on finishing the project but what we gain from the experience. Eg, when my child was doing the recent group project, I find that these kids r so lack of interpersonal skills which is impt in their future .. Projects can be done in an easy way if only they understand e need for good understanding n communication skills n not how well u write for your part .. Working parents who r involved in projects planning n administrations will probably understand the most in this aspect.
I just feel that GEP exist or not, the focus on Educating our children shd not be on academic excellence n IQ only, but more importantly their moral values n EQ.
Just my dreamy little thoughts.. -
2ppaamm:
Interesting to know. Is this a trend that is happening? What then, for the professionals who become SAHP? Would be hard for GEP educators to cope then. Haha! No wonder many choose to homeschool now!
Yeah, yeah. The funny thing is, many of the GEP parents are... ahem... don't want to mention. There are some folks who are so smart, but their kids are not in GEP. I know of Deans, professors, scientists, lawyers and all, their children find it hard to get into GEP. On the contrary, many other categories (not meaning not smart har... just different categories) manage to get their kids in these days. Very often, stay-at-home-mums. Not that stay-at-home-mums are not smart. Just that those professionals got no time to grill their kids lah.
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