Is GEP really necessary?

[corneyAmber]

Hi Chenon,


Can you share what course did your girl apply to and if it was relevant to her results?
I knew another child with stellar results also rejected by Cambridge because she was applying to a course that she did not have some subjects covered at ‘A’ levels. The good news is with good results at national level, getting into a good university is never an issue. They can be rejected at their first choices but they will still end up in a good alternative somewhere. That child got into another good uni with scholarship in the course of choice. She may not get her choice of uni but she got her choice of course which was important to her as well.

[verykiasu2010]

Chenonceau:

My DD had 8 distinctions at A levels... Prize-winning sportswoman... 2 research awards amongst others. Rejected by Cambridge. Her best friend was VP of student council in secondary... She took a top tier PSC scholarship even BEFORE sitting A levels. Rejected by Princeton AND Harvard.


Ivy leagues want you to be top of your school. They don't care whether you come from a school where you compete with the best of the nation or not. It's the bell curve in YOUR school that counts. It doesn't matter that the average in RI is better academically than the top in another school in China, the top in the other school stands a better chance. DD's tutor explained that Cambridge reduced intake of Singaporean students greatly last year. The places went to PRC students instead. Pam's kids went on alternative paths where they don't compete like crazy. They had differentiated paths and this differentiation has put almost all of them in Harvard on scholarship. I am not sure Pam's kids are smarter than DD's best friend. They're just so lucky to have Pam. This is what Pam meant by we may be an island but we are part of the world.

That has been our experience.

But if you're not sticky about Ivy League then a good A level certainly does get you nice bond free scholarships to NUS and various Australian unis. We're not sticky about Ivy League in our family. We reckon that after 5 years in the workforce... Unless you wanna be in academia... No one cares which uni you went to.

that is true. a banker working on my project was from Princeton. the bank did not do well and he was let go and still jobless and going for interviews

after a few years in the workforce, it no longer matter which uni you come from. where you are from was just an entry ticket

[Chenonceau]

ksi:

Hi Chenon,


Can you share what course did your girl apply to and if it was relevant to her results?
I knew another child with stellar results also rejected by Cambridge because she was applying to a course that she did not have some subjects covered at 'A' levels. The good news is with good results at national level, getting into a good university is never an issue. They can be rejected at their first choices but they will still end up in a good alternative somewhere. That child got into another good uni with scholarship in the course of choice. She may not get her choice of uni but she got her choice of course which was important to her as well.

It was relevant. She had everything she needed. It may have been a fluke year... I dunno. She was in the Humanities Prog (this used to be called PROMSHO) which traditionally sends a large proportion of students into top unis (and I mean the REALLY top... not just top 10% unis) in England and USA. Though 2012's cohort did much better overall than 2011... the proportion that made it into top unis (and I mean really top) were smaller.

DD was disappointed and had a chat with her expat tutor in JC. He mentioned China.

[Chenonceau]

HVR:

I think what really debatable is how we determine giftedness in a child. Can we tell when they are 9, 10 years old? The research said can and until it is proven otherwise what can we do but to accept it? The intention behind GEP is good because we have to identify the 'gifted' one early and nurture them differently. We have to harness their talents in view of our scarce resources as we only have 'human power' to tap on.

Research has moved beyond the premises upon which the current GEP (as described by Pam) is built. The MOE is sorely out of touch with research. Else, it would have known NOT to motivate good character using $$$$$ because every research paper published in the last 15 years yells against that practice.

I am not as familiar with gifted research but I do know enough to know that the GEP Pam describes is not consistent with what is known today about giftedness.

HVR:

All said, I think education system is one thing but as parents, we have to prepare to step in if we find the system inadequate or not benefiting our children. After all, the system is design to benefit the majority and with so many different students with different backgrounds and abilities, how can we expect the system to suit everyone?

At present, the majority in mainstream are ill-served by the privileges granted to GEPpers - smaller classes of 25 and well-written resources provided by GEP branch.

From what Pam writes, GEP has evolved closer to the generalist education previously indicative of mainstream - forcing the truly gifted (often skewed) to stay out. From my own experience, mainstream has evolved closer to GEP in its requirements (i.e., emphasis on inquiry-based learning). If the 2 have converged, it is not surprising that people question the difference in privileges accorded to GEP-pers. Just being logical here.

HVR:

Certain degree of sacrifice is expected in order to bring up our children. Cannot expect MOE or relevant authority to do everything for us.

But MOE cannot also expect that parents and tutors do everything for it.

[Melodies]

Hi Pam and Chen, thank you for your sharing. I am grateful to you two! I knew long ago that not just these Ivy league Uni but most oversea Uni have a certain quote for each country and they prefer a candidate who has huge/different exposures/experiences for diversity purposes. It is always easier for a student from a country less competitive but huge population to get entry than a student from a very competitive but small population. How blind I am? I go along unquestioningly with the current education system which try to train a perfectionist and generalist, with potentially bad consequence. Your posts serve a very good wake-up call to me. I know I have to do something because I don't want my dd to be trapped in current education system and become a lemming! :sad: The world is big with many alternatives! :salute: :please:

[2ppaamm]

Chenonceau:

My DD had 8 distinctions at A levels... Prize-winning sportswoman... 2 research awards amongst others. Rejected by Cambridge. Her best friend was VP of student council in secondary... She took a top tier PSC scholarship even BEFORE sitting A levels. Rejected by Princeton AND Harvard.


Ivy leagues want you to be top of your school. They don't care whether you come from a school where you compete with the best of the nation or not. It's the bell curve in YOUR school that counts. It doesn't matter that the average in RI is better academically than the top in another school in China, the top in the other school stands a better chance. DD's tutor explained that Cambridge reduced intake of Singaporean students greatly last year. The places went to PRC students instead. Pam's kids went on alternative paths where they don't compete like crazy. They had differentiated paths and this differentiation has put almost all of them in Harvard on scholarship. I am not sure Pam's kids are smarter than DD's best friend. They're just so lucky to have Pam. This is what Pam meant by we may be an island but we are part of the world.

That has been our experience.

But if you're not sticky about Ivy League then a good A level certainly does get you nice bond free scholarships to NUS and various Australian unis. We're not sticky about Ivy League in our family. We reckon that after 5 years in the workforce... Unless you wanna be in academia... No one cares which uni you went to.

You are one enlightened soul! You took what I want to say and illustrated it :salute: :please:

Sadly, many people don't realize it, until they have finished their A levels, all well-dressed, and no where to go. So, all these about IP... I won't say it is a lie, but it is a sad, mad rush for nothing. Unless, of course, you are so confident you can top your school, otherwise, it is a stupid game we are asked to play, to the detriment of our own kids. I see this year in year out, and people just think you :siao: until they experience it themselves. Some people learn from other people's mistakes, the rest have to be the others. :boogie:

[2ppaamm]

Melodies:

I knew long ago that not just these Ivy league Uni but most oversea Uni have a certain quote for each country and they prefer a candidate who has huge/different exposures/experiences for diversity purposes. It is always easier for a student from a country less competitive but huge population to get entry than a student from a very competitive but small population. How blind I am? I go along unquestioningly with the current education system which try to train a perfectionist and generalist, with potentially bad consequence. Your posts serve a very good wake-up call to me. I know I have to do something because I don't want my dd to be trapped in current education system and become a lemming! :sad: The world is big with many alternatives! :salute: :please:

Yes, there's much more in the world for us, just if we will lift up our eyes and look. Sadly, for some of us, it came too late. In a country like ours, we are left with no choice but work the education system for the good of the country and not necessarily the good of the children. But we are no government, we are parents. Our aim is to work to the good of our children. We ensure their wellbeing and look to ensure they reach their potential. Ideally, the objective of the country, family and personal should converge somehow, but we have seen in many cases, they don't. And that's why, even after following the prescribed paths, many students find themselves stranded at the end of the road. So as parents, we must open our eyes big, big and make sure we know what is going on.

GEP or not, we need to have our heads on our shoulders when we look at situations. The saddest thing for the parent or child is that when they finally woke up, the game is over. Look, we only have 12 years to work with, let's not muck around, or let others muck around with our kids' future.

The GEP phenomenon is so strange, it is only seen in Singapore. There has never been any additional study of how giftedness is handled in any other country or any information about how this GEP really works, or how the pedagogy nurtures giftedness. I agree it is outdated and revisiting its purposes and relevance is in order. As it is, I wonder how it can be a good program, when the curriculum is easily replicated in any classroom of clever students, and any teacher can teach the class. But who am I to say. I am only an on-looker. I can only advise GEP parents to brace their children, there will be more fire and discrimination, and NETT NETT to me, it is the price to pay for having those undeniable privileges, however small you think they are. Sad, but that's how Life is.

[vlim]

Hi 2ppamm,

I think I get your pt ... But I think for parents who are not so resourceful and $$$$... They have no choice but to 'play' the game ... As we wouldn't want chances or money to drop from the shy ... Neither do I want to let my kid to go to a much lousier school if I think tt he deserve or good enough to be in a better one ....
Anyway tt is just my opinion, all of us hope to 忘子成龙...but we parents can only help Our kids within our own capability ... Sad huh ..unfair huh ..

[2ppaamm]

vlim:

Hi 2ppamm,

I think I get your pt ... But I think for parents who are not so resourceful and $$$$... They have no choice but to 'play' the game ... As we wouldn't want chances or money to drop from the shy ... Neither do I want to let my kid to go to a much lousier school if I think tt he deserve or good enough to be in a better one ....
Anyway tt is just my opinion, all of us hope to 忘子成龙...but we parents can only help Our kids within our own capability ... Sad huh ..unfair huh ..

Remember the Chinese article earlier? This streaming thing in Singapore is crazy. We are such a small country, and we do things our own way, not realizing there's no way we can change the world no matter how well we do it.

So, at the end of the day, our children will suffer. But so be it. I guess things straighten out themselves. Like the previous post, it does not matter which school or university one went to in the end. So I guess this mad rush to good schools will continue. This reminds me of the JC vs Poly thingy many years ago. There will come a day when the 'lousier' school will be appreciated just as much, just like how there is an audience for Polys nowadays. Changes take time, and I think there will always be early adopters and the rest will be the followers.

[vlim]

Yes indeed, changes take time …