Is GEP really necessary?
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Just to share this from another thread.
Interesting interview with pioneer GEP students by NUS
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39436&p=826590&hilit=interview+gep#p826590 -
2ppaamm:
My other better suggestion is, just get rid of that PSLE! Saves all these trouble.
Just thinking, instead of that suggestion, how about besides the PSLE score, all the IP schools (that have SBGE programme) requires all candidates to go for a special entrance test ( to see whether they are suitable for the programme )? Is this consider more fair, Melodies? I think it will benefit the students as well. I don't know what the gep/non gep parents think though. -
Melodies:
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Aren't these projects/assessments providing you a lot of training for nurturing the GEP pupils to develop intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking? I'm speechless here. Do you know that I have to send my dd to TLL to get this type of training? I have to sources all types of materials for dd in the hope of developing her intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking so that she is well equipped to be able to answer those high-thinking questions! I know that there are many GEPpers attending TLL as well. There is one mum said that she is grateful that there is guided in GEP classess and the GEPeprs teachers also marked and feedback for a few rounds after the GEPpers have done a few drafts for their English composition. I'm so envied with this as you can only dreamed on in the mainstreams! Think about that, mainstreams have to take a few miles than GEPpers (attending tuition and also researching themself) in order to score well in PSLE. After all these aids, advantages and training, why you still think that they are not trained to do well in PLSE for GEPper?
Hi, i dont think you need to be envious of the GE program. Let me tell you what are the common practises in the mainstream but not the GE program that may put the GE kids at a disadvantage during PSLE. Unlike the mainstream English paper, the GE Engish paper usually comprises of only 2 components, cloze and comprehension. This means that the GE students have limited practice on Grammer Cloze, Synthesis ( 10 marks, 2 marks for each question ), Grammer, Vocab and editing, Punctuation, Graphics Stimulus. Add up all the marks and you will know how scared I was when my ds sat for PSLE 2 years ago. ( if you are aiming for A*, tell me how many marks can you lose in Paper 2. ) I believe your child has not been through the PSLE before. You have not understood the meaning of 'drillings'. You are not aware of how well prepared some GOOD schools are in preparing the mainstream students for PSLE.
I do not see the link how doing SS projects can help the GEP pupils to develop intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking necessary in PSLE. I can only say they can do a better research and write a better report maybe.
The Maths project that my ds did is on a topic that you can never see in PSLE.
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Wah... such a confusion in such a short time on this thread. Very interesting discussion. Here's my take and alternative views:
1. As a mom, it is hard to tell know if your child or any other child is gifted but you can BELIEVE that a child is gifted. It is hard because you simply don't know unless you are a psychologist. Giftedness is a statistical measurement, it is relative to other children. A child with the exact capabilities today, may not be considered one because of the Flynn effect. Therefore, unless you have the opportunity to observe a large number of children and analyze them intently, there is no way to tell if a child is just intelligent or gifted, which, by the way, are totally different definitions. As a mom, it is even harder. Give you a little example, when DD1 was turning one, she was playing with the remote control. I got fedup and said, press '1', and she did, thinking it was a lucky strike, I named different numbers one by one, she got them all correct! I realized she taught herself numbers. I thought she was very clever because kor-kor couldn't do that at the same age, but my comparison was only with kor-kor, and perhaps a few of my friends' children. So, I knew she was clever, but I didn't think she was gifted. Before she turned 2, she could add numbers, kor-kor couldn't do those things either, so I thought she is a clever girl again. This girl started reading Chronicles of Narnia at 4, while her classmates were learning ABC's, I still didn't think she was gifted, because she was a clumsy girl. She fell into the drains when we were visiting the zoo, and she would fall asleep in her music classes when she was 3. I thought she was just very interested in reading, that's all. This girl has now turned 16, she accelerated her own studies even in the uni, and will graduate in 2.5 years for a course that is supposed to take 4 years, won scholarships, became a 'distinguished talent' in this country she now calls home. As her mum, I am still not sure if she is gifted, but I know she is hard working, focused and very fortunate to be born in a family with resources to support her. I also know that from young, I kept believing she is gifted no matter what wrong she did, what mistakes (many, many) she made, and what she did not want to do. We were happy with her co-ed neighbourhood primary school, where she will tell you she spent the best years of her life and made life-time friends. I want to think that it is my belief that will make her achieve the extraordinary though she might have been born ordinary. So no, I can't tell if a child is gifted, simply because I don't know what is the norm, even with so many websites telling us various information, I will tell myself that is a western measurement and Asians are not normed in the tests. However, I can believe all my children are, and for that matter, I can believe all children are, in their own special ways.
2. Yes, I have a lot of expectation for my children, very high. It stems from my own observation of Asian and Ang-mo children. Because Asians expect so much of our children, they have learned to achieve. I also teach my children not to expect handouts from anyone, no matter how great they think they are, or what achievements they have. BECAUSE we are advantaged, we should not take advantage. Give you an example. I have seen many parents of highly gifted children demanding special treatment and facilities from the government and education institutions because they believe they are assets to the nation etc etc. I do not believe anyone owes us anything. I studied many early entrants, and they would get into universities with ENOUGH 'A' level subjects, or doing very well in one or two areas. I am not saying they are wrong, there is merit in what they do. But for my children, I expect the same thing out of them from any other 18 year olds if they want to go to uni. They take the same number of subjects, they clear the same number of courses, and they take the same entrance exams, like a 18 year old. We ask for no concession, we ask not to be special, we ask for no recognition as gifted children. We apply for scholarship and earn them like every other student many years older do. If we are to be called distinguished talent, we do as the masses, but better, not less. All these, because I don't believe in special favour. Why? Because there is a price for everything. When people hand out privileges, there is a price to pay. Just like when a government is expensive, people expect a lot out of them, and at the end of the day, there will be a price, though it might not be immediate. For me, because I am so kiasu, I don't want to pay the price, I'd rather my children work harder.
3. I am not harsh (don't know whether this was targeting at me or not) on GEP children. I am telling the reality that they will face when they go into the workforce, when they get into secondary school, and when they are in the JCs. Aunty 2ppaamm will not be there to give them rolling eyes. Because of the preferences they get, expectations raise, and to avoid all these, the only way out for them is to live up to the investment put in them and PERFORM. Otherwise, don't take those privileges. I happen to be a very timid person when it comes to these areas, I am afraid of having to pay back, so I'd rather not take. I realize not everyone is like me, and my advice could perhaps not be recognized. I respect that, and it is perfectly ok.
To each his own. -
PiggyLalala:
But you don't need to be drilled to be good in grammar, synthesis, punctuation etc! You just need to read.Melodies:
Aren't these projects/assessments providing you a lot of training for nurturing the GEP pupils to develop intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking? I'm speechless here. Do you know that I have to send my dd to TLL to get this type of training? I have to sources all types of materials for dd in the hope of developing her intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking so that she is well equipped to be able to answer those high-thinking questions! I know that there are many GEPpers attending TLL as well. There is one mum said that she is grateful that there is guided in GEP classess and the GEPeprs teachers also marked and feedback for a few rounds after the GEPpers have done a few drafts for their English composition. I'm so envied with this as you can only dreamed on in the mainstreams! Think about that, mainstreams have to take a few miles than GEPpers (attending tuition and also researching themself) in order to score well in PSLE. After all these aids, advantages and training, why you still think that they are not trained to do well in PLSE for GEPper?
Hi, i dont think you need to be envious of the GE program. Let me tell you what are the common practises in the mainstream but not the GE program that may put the GE kids at a disadvantage during PSLE. Unlike the mainstream English paper, the GE Engish paper usually comprises of only 2 components, cloze and comprehension. This means that the GE students have limited practice on Grammer Cloze, Synthesis ( 10 marks, 2 marks for each question ), Grammer, Vocab and editing, Punctuation, Graphics Stimulus. Add up all the marks and you will know how scared I was when my ds sat for PSLE 2 years ago. ( if you are aiming for A*, tell me how many marks can you lose in Paper 2. ) I believe your child has not been through the PSLE before. You have not understood the meaning of 'drillings'. You are not aware of how well prepared some GOOD schools are in preparing the mainstream students for PSLE.
I do not see the link how doing SS projects can help the GEP pupils to develop intellectual; depth and higher-level thinking necessary in PSLE. I can only say they can do a better research and write a better report maybe.
The Maths project that my ds did is on a topic that you can never see in PSLE.
And reading goes a long, long way compared to those grilling... 
As for the SS... taxi drivers know the answer to quote Sir Nebbermind... your kid is targeted for higher things, my friend. 
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Apart from family’s problems or being sick during psle, otherwise is difficult to reconcile why a gepper had failed to perform despite being taught and groomed in a conductive enviroment. My only guess is either hothoused or unfortunately has reached their pinnacle.
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Ksi and dear other GEPpers’ moms, sigh…I’m not here to bash up 1% of the children, I’m here to have a constructive discussion on GEP program/system/process and compare GEP program and treatment with mainstreams. Please try to see this point and please don’t be so emotional about it so that you will have a clear mind to discuss. While you think that GEP program is benefited to your ds/dd and your ds/dd deserved to have this, there are thousand others shared the same view for their ds/dd. What make you think that your ds/dd are more equal than others? Like Pam, I have seen many others I think they should be selected but they are not but I was surprised with many admitted one. Because of one selection, their fate is set. Do you dare to say it is a fair selection? For those selected pupils, they may be think that it is very fair system。 But, what make them think so? 我是以事论 事， 不是针对人。
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comfy:
My son drew a cartoon when I asked him to draw something depicting DSA when he was P6. He drew a boy on the starting mark, and then a teacher kicking this boy at his butt, with 10 doors to clear, each marking the schools' names, and finally the PSLE. Wished I kept that cartoon. It depicted the many tests and exams students had to go through for DSA and then the PSLE... hahaha!2ppaamm:
My other better suggestion is, just get rid of that PSLE! Saves all these trouble.
Just thinking, instead of that suggestion, how about besides the PSLE score, all the IP schools (that have SBGE programme) requires all candidates to go for a special entrance test ( to see whether they are suitable for the programme )? Is this consider more fair, Melodies? I think it will benefit the students as well. I don't know what the gep/non gep parents think though.
But seriously, it is a great idea, but I'd say forget about the PSLE, and the schools have their proprietary tests, each school is different and they can choose their own students accordingly, and if a GEPper has better knowledge in the area the school is looking for, and tests well, they deserve the place, ditto for a mainstream kid. Just make sure the criteria is the same. They can even set their test skewed towards the GEP subjects and I don't think anyone should complain if they have a preference for students already familiar with GEP syllabus. -
I thought we already complaint that we have too many exams here in Singapore. Why create one more? Do you think it is a level playing field assessment? Isn't GEP program similar to IP program. GEPpers would have upper hand advantages because you have 3 yrs run up program before the test.
Why don't stick to PSLE exams then? Why created another one? There are many GEPpers did well in PSLE too and scrap all those DSA then? You will never get any agreement on this? Seriously, we don't have all this unfair treatment before the implementation of DSA. All based on PSLE!~comfy:
Just thinking, instead of that suggestion, how about besides the PSLE score, all the IP schools (that have SBGE programme) requires all candidates to go for a special entrance test ( to see whether they are suitable for the programme )? Is this consider more fair, Melodies? I think it will benefit the students as well. I don't know what the gep/non gep parents think though.2ppaamm:
My other better suggestion is, just get rid of that PSLE! Saves all these trouble.
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For those parents whose kids missed out from gep, is alright as things will even out when yr kids reach senior high/yr5. By then the class size is btw 17-max 25 depending on subjects combination.
Anw my ds told me that when he applied for government scholarships and popular courses in unis, there’s no mention of gep. Also for selection of officer’s training no mention of this programme.
Btw, he feels that he’s rather ordinary by any measure.
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