Why screen kids in P1?

[verykiasu2010]

Am I a soft-fist-scared parent ? aiyo, any fist also no scared lah

[corneyAmber]

verykiasu2010:

Am I a soft-fist-scared parent ? aiyo, any fist also no scared lah

oic...so you also not soft-fist-scared la.... ok here you go... :torchme: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Nebbermind]

verykiasu2010:

now is my turn to receive some stones, after avoiding this thread until now :siam: :siam: :torchme:

So, what brought u here?

[mamago]

ksi:

verykiasu2010:

Am I a soft-fist-scared parent ? aiyo, any fist also no scared lah

oic...so you also not soft-fist-scared la.... ok here you go... :torchme: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Haha, count me in.... another one that's not sophisticated, not so-fis-ti-cated and not soft-fist-scared, too.

Whatever will be will be ..... :siam:

[Chenonceau]

Nebbermind:

It prolly boils down to the intent of the test.

Take gep for eg. People would gladly put their kids thru it even if their kids hade never been in band1 (overall) in all 3 yrs.

But, say, if moe is to seek consent for testing on the kids to seek out the 'bottom', say 10%, for whatever early intervention...will parents be as enthu? Guess something need to be done on the sly coz...well...kinda taboo.

My guess is that we never heard from them coz ours kids don't fall into the category they r looking for.

I may be the odd one out.

As a psychologist, I don't need other people to administer IQ tests. I am quite capable of administering them myself. I never have though. I see no utility in testing... and some things are better not to know.

Knowing IQ - One Loses Either Way
If my child is scores in the gifted range, then he/she feels the pressure to perform. The social context comprised largely of NON-gifted people also expect performance... and can be cruel to my gifted child if he/she fails to perform. If my child scores in the NON-gifted range, then he/she has an excuse for poor performance. I am not smart, Mommy. The test proves it. I don't have to try.

I suppose that was why I played down P3 GEP testing for both my kids. They weren't showing signs of being extraordinarily gifted and requiring of special help that I could not give. But yes... I have an advantage, I can help my kids more than most. So I quite understand if there are parents who WANT to test their kids. For me, it is enough that I respond to their learning needs and interests as the years progress. In mainstream, I expect the schools to do the same without resorting to putting a number to my child's raw intelligence.

But maybe, that's just me.


The Motivational Value of Not Knowing
As long as my child doesn't know... and the rest of the world doesn't know... then my child will keep trying and MAYBE... perhaps... he will make something of himself in an uncertain world because...

(1) he doesn't give up in the face of difficulty... told himself he can't do better because of intellectual limitations
(2) he doesn't give up because of unreasonable social expectations and unkind social judgment

Happy to Participate If Testing for Early Intervention
HOWEVER, if the school communicated clearly that the XXXXX test was done to identify students for early intervention, then I would be quite happy to give my consent. I would be interested in any thing that would help level the playing field for disadvantaged kids. Nonetheless, it seems clear that what has been administered is an IQ test... not a literacy/numeracy test... not tests to identify special needs such as autism, dysprexia etc...

But If For Early Intervention, Why Test IQ?
This, for me, sets off alarm bells. Why are you collecting IQ data from my child without even a letter to inform me, let alone seek my informed consent? This is not as simple as cutting hair. Given the prevalent fascination with IQ scores and robust research evidence that IQ does predict academic prowess... even if IQ does not quite predict success in life, taking an IQ score from my child is not the same as cutting his hair. Important decisions relevant to my child's future in school CAN be made based on that score. It is fair to let parents know why the data was collected... and what will be done to that data... and who will access that data.

Personal Data is Just That - Personal
As a junior HR executive, I once carelessly left staff data (age, address, educational qualifications) unprotected on my desk. I was roundly admonished because some people concerned (sophisticated?) objected to my cavalier treatment of the data... even whilst others didn't mind (not sophisticated?). I don't think it is seemly that those who don't mind make little of the concerns of those who do. It is personal data after all.

Unaware of Potential Dangers?
The issue is also not as simple as \"sophisticated\" VS \"unsophisticated\". As a psychologist, I am keenly aware of the potential impact of IQ data... how it can be used or misused. Give me enough psychological data about you and I can destroy your life. I know how to use psychological data to make things happen. If I wanted to, I know how to motivate people to die for a cause.... to manipulate the mind in ways that even IF you knew what I was doing, you would still have no defense. This is real because it happens all the time in cults... in jihad camps.

That is the power of psychological data in the hands of a skilled psychologist.

The tour guide who leads tours along the Nile river is keenly aware of a certain water parasite that will swim up your urinary tract and lodge itself in your body. At the point of parasite entry, you will feel nothing. Pain will come later. Now, let's suppose you tell the tour guide \"Oh... you are sophisticated and I am not so I don't mind that the parasite gets into my body, since it isn't intrusive and I can still pee.\"... it doesn't mean that you are in any less danger of long-term pain.

Sure... the IQ test was only 30 minutes. BUT what schools do with the data has the potential to cause long-term pain to some children, even if not yours. You feel nothing at the point of testing. We don't know if some will feel something in the long-term.


Issues of Trust and Empowerment Aside

I think it is good to give the schools our trust. I suppose it is fine that some people don't mind the IQ test. It doesn't detract from the fact that IQ data can be used for good and for ill. If for good, schools should come right out and inform us. If they hide, then it is quite natural for some parents to get upset... even if others don't.

We should just respect that people like David Chin are more sensitive to the potential of IQ data. We shouldn't make fun of them or make light of their concerns. This is not about cutting hair.

I am just throwing up questions that I think are important. And it's fine if others don't. I am not judging MOE at present. No one knows what the data will be used for and who will access it. There could be a perfectly good explanation. I am just asking both questions and waiting for an answer.

[Pen88n]

mamago:

ksi:

[quote=\"verykiasu2010\"]Am I a soft-fist-scared parent ? aiyo, any fist also no scared lah

oic...so you also not soft-fist-scared la.... ok here you go... :torchme: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Haha, count me in.... another one that's not sophisticated, not so-fis-ti-cated and not soft-fist-scared, too.

Whatever will be will be ..... :siam:[/quote]I this mountain tortoise (should be mountain panda) also not so-fis-ti-cated.
DD classmate's mum refused to believe my DD never attended any enrichment / tuition class and never did any assessment books in P1. She only play and read.

[verykiasu2010]

how accurate are those online free of charge IQ test ?

[Nebbermind]

Alamak! Why must Chen quote my short unsophisticated post in her long sophisticated reply?!!!

[Chenonceau]

Nebbermind:

Alamak! Why must Chen quote my short unsophisticated post in her long sophisticated reply?!!!

Because I like your leaf.

[verykiasu2010]

Chenonceau:

Nebbermind:

Alamak! Why must Chen quote my short unsophisticated post in her long sophisticated reply?!!!

Because I like your leaf.

no, because you missed the leaf, plucked from your garden