Recommendation of changes to reduce Stress for PSLE
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xfx:
The percentile in growth chart is good as it may be an indication that the child is not thriving and parents could seek help early. But in academics.slmkhoo:
[quote=\"beanbear\"]Percentile info may b able to reduce some stress for parents as they are zooming in alot of COP rather than how yr child has fared in comparison with the rest of 40 000 kids taking exams.
YES! Actually, I would prefer the PSLE results to be in the form of percentiles for every subject and also overall. That's so much easier to understand than a T-score.
I wouldn't want to know the percentile. It does not serve any purpose but to give bragging rights to those that are in the top percentile. How would a child feels if he knows that he is in the bottom 5 percentile in the whole P6 cohort.
What's done cannot be undone. The psle exam is over and why bother if one is in the top or bottom percentile. :siam:[/quote]For me PSLE is only one milestone in the journey of a child's education here. I feel that for all the effort to get a T-score just for school placement is really wasteful. Maybe for some parents it serves as bragging rights. Maybe for some parents, it's awareness of what needs to be taken care of, if the parent is still unaware. I'm more concerned about giving parents an added perspective about what their child's performance means in the context of his whole cohort. At the workplace, I used to have to deal with my staff who complain about getting a C grading. At my previous workplace, C grade is average. Maybe 20% get B grade and only 5 or less than 5% get A grade. Those who are unaware about how the system works are very angry about the C. But when supervisors are transparent, they understand that C is not really bad. It's average. You share the same grade with majority of your cohort.
For eg, in DS school, they give you highest score, average score and lowest score for exams. For us parents, it's hard to know how difficult the paper is. If you look at Maths, even when the kids say it's a darn difficult paper, there's still some kids who can score 100 or 98 while the rest are languishing in the 60s and still many others failing the paper. But if school does not tell us this info about average, percentile etc, we may end up scolding our kid for getting a C grade. My focus is on the average score because I KNOW my son is not in the top percentile. There's so much meaning attributed to an A*, A, B, C or D. To me if information is given to me that C means AVERAGE, I'm quite happy. If C means FAILURE, then it's a different story. If only 2% of kids can get A* for Maths or Science, it's a relief for me. No need to strive so hard leh. B or C also ok what. But we don't have such data right? So much stress is created because parents are creating meanings about what A means, what B means, etc. These meanings may not be accurate. I've read a posting where a parent's child skipped 3 questions (5 mark questions) in Maths, and still got a A*. You do the math yourself. There's a lot of mystery behind what's going on the scoring business. Too much mystery I feel.
If i merely look at the absolute scores one of his Prelim papers for one his subjects, I might get really anxious. He got 66. But there was an average score given. It was 64. Highest score 85. So I'm still quite relieved. He's within average. I'd like to think I'm not an overly ambitious kind of parent. If my child is within average & slightly above average I'm fine especially because I know he has the ability reach at least average or above average. He's got company with many of his peers and it gives me some kind of gauge as to the level of difficulty for that paper. But if average score was 75 and my kid got 66, there's cause for concern, yes? Especially if I know by his track record, he's usually within the average or above average range.
Now my DD2 who is now in P5 is a different kind of child altogether. She has consistently been at the bottom 20 percentile since P3. She's in the last class. We take it as it is because we know it's not because of lack of hard work but her learning difficulties. She's demoralized at times but we still ensure she puts her best foot forward. We set goals for sections of the paper rather than the absolute scores for the overall paper. We'd be very happy if she could make it into the Normal Acad. -
janet_lee88:
Personally, I thought they are more focus on exam techniques than anything else. Why don't they change the name from science to exam techniques? How to foster that love in science when kids start to self doubt when they don't do well during exams??? They will start to think oh, I am just not good in science, it's difficult for me and give up on the love for science. That is just so unfortunate. MOE needs to look into the focus. We are producing a nation of rote learners who cannot think creatively as the environment don't encourage them to do so. To do well, ability to rote learn seems critical.
My son loves science, so we didn't have much problems coaching him without tuition. But we got fed up bcos son couldn't score in his fav subject. We refused to bring in science tutor, still wanting to believe that school will teach students to answer OE questions the way PSLE markers are looking for. But we were deeply disappointed. I do not know how many others feel that way.MMM:
I think my issue with science is that, marks are awarded based on production of \"Key words\" and required answering style..... So even a common sense answer without keywords = wrong..... My P5 dd manages that but my P4 ds struggles... He enjoys science BUT he struggles during exams as he always like to say in his own words...
I acknowleged I am the type of parent who struggle with science. But is the marking focus today correct???? It appears to promote rote learning eg. memorise the standard answers for given set of questions. That is really stifling. -
I wouldn't want to know where my son stands in the percentile for academics...unless the percentile is for his weight/height :rotflmao:
IP schools have their own curriculum. 1) I know my son doesn't belong to IP.
2) If my son badly needs help for Eng, I can still get tutor if he takes the O level route. -
I support the idea of percentiles because I like to know where my kids stand in the cohort. If 90% score A, then my child might be in the 10th percentile but I think he’s doing fine. Of course, some parents may use it for bragging, but don’t those same parents already use T-score or no. of A*s for bragging? A bragger will always find something to brag about.
Percentiles also mean that it doesn’t matter whether a paper is harder or not because where your child stands will be roughly the same, no matter how hard or easy the paper was. And it is easier to see if your child has improved vis a vis himself from year to year by looking at percentile rather than marks.
My kids are in international school, and they take an achievement test each year which reports results in percentile. I appreciate it as it helps me compare my kids to a larger cohort than just their tiny school. When my kids started in the school, one daughter scored fairly poorly in a few areas, so we put in a bit of extra work over the next year. And we could then see whether that extra work pushed her up within the cohort when she took the test the following year. There are some areas where the extra work ddin’t help much and she still did poorly, and we accept that those are just not her strengths. It’s just good to know, and it’s good for the child to know his own strengths and weaknesses too. -
MMM:
We can go on and on...but I wonder if the top brass will ever be concerned
Personally, I thought they are more focus on exam techniques than anything else. Why don't they change the name from science to exam techniques? How to foster that love in science when kids start to self doubt when they don't do well during exams??? They will start to think oh, I am just not good in science, it's difficult for me and give up on the love for science. That is just so unfortunate. MOE needs to look into the focus. We are producing a nation of rote learners who cannot think creatively as the environment don't encourage them to do so. To do well, ability to rote learn seems critical.
Singaporean kids (and parents) are so tuned in rote learning. Science is an interesting subject, but PSLE has turned it into a nightmare for many.
Teachers tell the kids AND parents, 'KEYWORD'.
When son was in P4, hubby asked FT why the answer for a question in SA2 wasn't acceptable. The FT told hubby, 'it's not answered PSLE format'. -
MOE is reviewing the PSLE format so let’s hope they will reduce the emphasis on rote learning/ pure memory techniques and focus more on logical thinking process which makes more sense to the child’s healthy development.
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Personally, it does not make much difference whether I know my child's standard in which manner - Tscore/percentile/number of A* & A.
They are all just ways of telling me where my child stand against the whole cohort.
To me, percentile would possibly be able to offer the most details eg. Top 5% or 10%, 80-90%, 70-80%. But seriously, can we really really accept the truth gracefully? :roll:
Sure, top % will be happy, but may be accused of bragging. People are bound to compare & then start stressing their child to get into the next range. And for those in the lower range, they would be unhappy & some gets demoralized & rather not have that kind of info.....
There is no perfect system & whatever is implemented, there will be all sorts of comments. I will make the best of whatever is available cos a system/policy is not about me, it's for the majority. :love: -
BeContented:
I just want MOE to know that PSLE is a nightmare for many...not just the kids but the parents as well. If PSLE is to stay, tweak it.To me, percentile would possibly be able to offer the most details eg. Top 5% or 10%, 80-90%, 70-80%. But seriously, can we really really accept the truth gracefully? :roll:
Sure, top % will be happy, but may be accused of bragging. People are bound to compare & then start stressing their child to get into the next range. And for those in the lower range, they would be unhappy & some gets demoralized & rather not have that kind of info.....
There is no perfect system & whatever is implemented, there will be all sorts of comments. I will make the best of whatever is available cos a system/policy is not about me, it's for the majority. :love:
1) Get schools to teach adequately.
2) Get schools to set papers to test what has been taught.
This way, the kids will not be demoralized after studying so hard.
Forget about setting prelims to 'wake up' the students.
Any revised system/policy is for the majority. When parents are able to feel that most schools are truly teaching, and the prelim standard is not set beyond PSLE standard, the reliance on tutors will be reduced.
Be Contended,
Some people are born to compare. They can compare every damn thing. -
janet_lee88:
well said, Janet88 :goodpost:
I just want MOE to know that PSLE is a nightmare for many...not just the kids but the parents as well. If PSLE is to stay, tweak it.
1) Get schools to teach adequately.
2) Get schools to set papers to test what has been taught.
This way, the kids will not be demoralized after studying so hard.
Forget about setting prelims to 'wake up' the students.
Any revised system/policy is for the majority. When parents are able to feel that most schools are truly teaching, and the prelim standard is not set beyond PSLE standard, the reliance on tutors will be reduced. -
janet_lee88:
JANET :goodpost:
I just want MOE to know that PSLE is a nightmare for many...not just the kids but the parents as well. If PSLE is to stay, tweak it.BeContented:
To me, percentile would possibly be able to offer the most details eg. Top 5% or 10%, 80-90%, 70-80%. But seriously, can we really really accept the truth gracefully? :roll:
Sure, top % will be happy, but may be accused of bragging. People are bound to compare & then start stressing their child to get into the next range. And for those in the lower range, they would be unhappy & some gets demoralized & rather not have that kind of info.....
There is no perfect system & whatever is implemented, there will be all sorts of comments. I will make the best of whatever is available cos a system/policy is not about me, it's for the majority. :love:
1) Get schools to teach adequately.
2) Get schools to set papers to test what has been taught.
This way, the kids will not be demoralized after studying so hard.
Forget about setting prelims to 'wake up' the students.
Any revised system/policy is for the majority. When parents are able to feel that most schools are truly teaching, and the prelim standard is not set beyond PSLE standard, the reliance on tutors will be reduced.
Be Contended,
Some people are born to compare. They can compare every damn thing.