Population woes
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pirate:
This is a very beguiling question. But I would like to phrase it more pragmatically.limlim:
share some good letters in ST Forum
[quote]Instead of presuming that the population must increase to sustain the economy, can we also consider alternative economic models that suit a lower, more comfortable population density?
Osman Sidek
On a micro-economic level, what are the people advocating this themselves prepared to give up for a lower level of economic activity and a lower population density?
Are they willing to:
(1) Eat less outside and cook more at home so that there will be less reliance on foreign service workers;
(2) Do more things DIY so that there will less reliance on foreign plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc;
(3) Pay more when they do eat outside so that more locals can be employed in the service line;
(4) Pay more for public transport or wait longer for the next bus/train so we can cut down on foreign drivers;
(5) Wait longer for HDB BTOs as we allow in fewer construction workers;
(6) Pay more for FDWs so that there is less demand for domestic workers;
(7) Wait longer and pay more for medical care so that we can reduce the number of foreign nurses and doctors; or
(8) Accept a lower pay as more companies relocate out of Singapore while at the same time pay more for basic services (which is likely unless they happen to be blue collar workers providing these services)?
Even if money grows on trees, you still have to climb up the tree to pluck it.[/quote]You totally missed the BIG picture..
Why do we need some many providers? Because of the increase in demand. Why the increase in demand? becasue of the influx of FTs!
Anyway, for many years Singapore have been relying on FW.. I feel there is no issue with FW.. we need them to fill the void that locals doesn't want to do.
The problem is the recent influx of FTs, PMETs, competing with locals for many things.
FTs contribute to demand for service at restaurants, transport, HDB flats, queue at clinics, handyman services, FDW etc.. NOT the FWs.
With less \"FT\", there will be less competitions.. And less overcrowding.
Don't mixed up the two. One is a necessity.. The other? creating business for rich businessman and lower operating cost for rich bosses.
It's the peasants who will suffer. -
I am not prepared to dismiss the need for foreign workers… (service, construction etc…)
But I believe we can do away with majority of the EP and FTs. -
pirate:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/%5Bbreaking-news%5D-construction-industry-not-labour-intensive-u-think-3929395.html
(5) Wait longer for HDB BTOs as we allow in fewer construction workers;
I feel that SMEs who cannot be efficient should be allowed to perish instead of supplying them cheap labour to keep them afloat. After all, they are not creating value jobs for locals. -
What drives the economy? Spending. Period. Jobs, more jobs, more spending, leads to more jobs being created...
Protectionism doesn't work anymore. That's regression.
Do you know it takes how many FT, FW, FDW to maintain a one long and sustainable career of a local? -
limlim:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/eat-drink-man-woman-16/%5Bbreaking-news%5D-construction-industry-not-labour-intensive-u-think-3929395.html
I feel that SMEs who cannot be efficient should be allowed to perish instead of supplying them cheap labour to keep them afloat. After all, they are not creating value jobs for locals.
That'll be a black day... -
limlim:
This is a very beguiling question. But I would like to phrase it more pragmatically.pirate:
[quote=\"limlim\"]share some good letters in ST Forum
Osman Sidek
On a micro-economic level, what are the people advocating this themselves prepared to give up for a lower level of economic activity and a lower population density?
Are they willing to:
(1) Eat less outside and cook more at home so that there will be less reliance on foreign service workers;
(2) Do more things DIY so that there will less reliance on foreign plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc;
(3) Pay more when they do eat outside so that more locals can be employed in the service line;
(4) Pay more for public transport or wait longer for the next bus/train so we can cut down on foreign drivers;
(5) Wait longer for HDB BTOs as we allow in fewer construction workers;
(6) Pay more for FDWs so that there is less demand for domestic workers;
(7) Wait longer and pay more for medical care so that we can reduce the number of foreign nurses and doctors; or
(8) Accept a lower pay as more companies relocate out of Singapore while at the same time pay more for basic services (which is likely unless they happen to be blue collar workers providing these services)?
Even if money grows on trees, you still have to climb up the tree to pluck it.[/quote]You totally missed the BIG picture..
Why do we need some many providers? Because of the increase in demand. Why the increase in demand? becasue of the influx of FTs!
Anyway, for many years Singapore have been relying on FW.. I feel there is no issue with FW.. we need them to fill the void that locals doesn't want to do.
The problem is the recent influx of FTs, PMETs, competing with locals for many things.
FTs contribute to demand for service at restaurants, transport, HDB flats, queue at clinics, handyman services, FDW etc.. NOT the FWs.
With less \"FT\", there will be less competitions.. And less overcrowding.
Don't mixed up the two. One is a necessity.. The other? creating business for rich businessman and lower operating cost for rich bosses.
It's the peasants who will suffer.[/quote]
:goodpost: Totally agreed! I have nothing against the FW. I have issues with some of the S passes, EP or even PR. If they have talents that SC lack, no problem, welcome with open arms. But for a lot of positions (e.g. that Amy Cheong position - she's a PR right?), don't tell me there are no qualified SC that want that job at that pay?
Also, I feel we should implement a minimal wage system. So that the FW and our lower income SC can have a decent standard of living. Just look at the experience of HK recently reported in ST. There was a quote that I totally remembered. It says something like the overheads from the ever increasing rental far exceeds that little bit of increment the wages for the lower income workers. We should seriously look at the HK experience. -
Do you know how many SMEs will fail, if the gov adopt this policy?
Do you know what’s the percentage of the SMEs contribution to Spore’s economy?
Do you know every successful business were all started as SME, to begin with? -
Don’t kill the goose just for the eggs… 杀鹅取卵.
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mamago:
There is a difference between protectionism and unhealthy explosion of population via immigration that could potentially lead to destruction of fabric of the society.What drives the economy? Spending. Period. Jobs, more jobs, more spending, leads to more jobs being created...
Protectionism doesn't work anymore. That's regression.
Do you know it takes how many FT, FW, FDW to maintain a one long and sustainable career of a local?
There is a limit what this little island can take.
Did you read up on the 2 links related to \"mice experiment\"?
As for spending and the economy.. well.. I wonder what the govt is thinking too. If Spending is to be encouraged, WHY introduce GST? GST is to discourage spending.. I remember that was one of the reasons given. If spending is good, WHY discourage it? weird.. isn't it?
And, for your last sentence, please substantiate with facts. -
Dora1:
:goodpost: Totally agreed! I have nothing against the FW. I have issues with some of the S passes, EP or even PR. If they have talents that SC lack, no problem, welcome with open arms. But for a lot of positions (e.g. that Amy Cheong position - she's a PR right?), don't tell me there are no qualified SC that want that job at that pay?
Also, I feel we should implement a minimal wage system. So that the FW and our lower income SC can have a decent standard of living. Just look at the experience of HK recently reported in ST. There was a quote that I totally remembered. It says something like the overheads from the ever increasing rental far exceeds that little bit of increment the wages for the lower income workers. We should seriously look at the HK experience.
You do know that by implementing minimum wages across the board will bring forth black market labours (at a more affordable cost), and create other societal issues?
With minimum wages, more jobs would be lost; every business is looking at their cost. Take, a famous Sushi restaurant, if the minimum hourly/monthly wages is to follow, the 4 cleaner crews will be down to 2, to justify their business overhead... well, then we will have 2 more jobless to add into the total.
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