Population woes
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mum_sugoku:
Frankly, I too don't know if there are better people out there..
Yes elections is how we choose those we think can lead us.Sun_2010:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]
No. We rely on them to find solutions. And if they couldn't, we'll have to find someone else who could.
Isn't that what election is for?
But is there is who is capable of doing it beter in the current options we have? In all honesty there isn't , IMHO.
And the fact govt seems to be going all out to gather people's opinion and genuineness needs and balance it with the realities of Singapore and the global environment . Constructive feedback is a great mechanism, but dissing is not.
Govt is just like the doctor, we develop health problem, we tell them the problem, the symptons, etc. but we just have to rely on the expertise of the doctor to cure us.. And if this doctor can't cure our illness, then we'll have to find another one.. We wouldn't know if the next doctor would be able to cure us , but shouldn't we at least give it a try?[/quote]And you consider this to be responsible behavior? Take a gamble on an unproven team because you can't stomach some difficult government policies, that may have other benefits? Sorry to keep hammering on this but I really find this preposterous. Changing government is not like changing GPs! -
limlim:
Right, so we take the ministers salaries down another 70%, and now those same policies become acceptable........Of coz leaders lead..
I'm just wondering how to justify extraordinary salary w/o extraordinary talent.
Many says what they're doing now at growing the population to solve whatever problem with the side effect that many citizens are unhappy, is of no choice..
Well.. fine enough.. an ordinary person would have done that..
It takes an extra ordinary person to come up with something that pleases the majority of the population and solve the difficulties that the country is facing..
And that extra ordinary person has yet to appear.
But we're seeing lots of extra ordinary salaries not seen in other countries.. which accords it with \"out of the ordinary\" status.... isn't it?
What kind of perverted logic is that?
You make all kinds of assumptions. An ordinary leadership would just have done the simple popular thing and shut off the flow years ago. Isn't that what the opposition is proposing? Nothing new or creative in that idea EITHER. -
3Boys:
It is only PART of the solution, for the reasons I have stated ad nauseum in this thread, for which I have tried to at least educate myself on the issues that we as a small country face economically and strategically. So I don't go off on an ignorant rant about population growth until I understand to a degree about what underpins it. And in my view a larger population base is necessary to give us some additional scale, to help our local industries.
And the solution is? Keep growing the population until we cannot grow any further? And you accept such solution?mum_sugoku:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
The sad thing is that you don't even see the fallacy of your statement. The point of electing leaders is so that they can LEAD, I.e., put forth things that are necessary, but perhaps unpopular. What's the point of electing leaders that only do things that WE WANT them to do? That's not leadership.
If your kid says I want to eat ice cream and play Nintendo everyday, would you agree? What if your kid then says they want to change parents because you do not bend to their will?
They HAVE solutions, you just don't want to accept it.
Geddit?
Is there a consequence of this, of course! Just like there is a consequence to not playing Nintendo, which is, no fun for that afternoon. BUT, there is a broader reason why we accept some pain.
So yes, I accept population growth for now up to a point where it becomes a challenge for infrastructure, because I understand why it needs to be done, that it is ONLY one part of a broader strategy, and I understand the pain and consequences, and what things are being done to mitigate. Of course the government knows the pain, we tell them about it every single day through various channels. Why don't they just do the popular thing and completely shut off the flow? Because it will kill our economy and our government don't do things just because they are popular. That's a great mark of leadership, don't you think?[/quote]No. A true great leader should foresee the problem, and tackle the problem before it ultimately \"becomes a challenge\". Not merely taking the easiest way out of the problem (by importing more people)--all the way until it becomes a challenge for infrastructure.. -
I think I have the solution :idea:
1. Stop FT/FW from coming in so that Singaporean won't lose their job. Nevermind if nobody wants to take up some of the job or lack the skill Nevermind if SME not fit enough to survive, let all the staff (be it SG or foreigners) die together with the company.
2. Make PSLE easy so parents not stressed & willing to have more children. Long maternity, free education, free childcare, all Sporeans confirmed a place in University. Remember no scholarship for foreigners cos need to use the monies to fund Sporeans only. Not enough?? Use the reserves! No need to worry about global competition, SG all protected in the country, sure won't go hungry.
3. Make sure life not stressful in SG, then people will have time & willing to make more babies.
:siam: -
3Boys:
WRONG deduction.
Right, so we take the ministers salaries down another 70%, and now those same policies become acceptable........
What kind of perverted logic is that?
You make all kinds of assumptions. An ordinary leadership would just have done the simple popular thing and shut off the flow years ago. Isn't that what the opposition is proposing? Nothing new or creative in that idea EITHER.
If take the salary down 70%, it makes the salary acceptable for the quality of the policies presented now.
As for what policies is acceptable for extra ordinary salary.. I have no answer coz we have not seen such a policy yet
And I am not drawing extra ordinary salary so don't expect me to suggest a policy worth million dollar salaries. -
mum_sugoku:
No. A true great leader should foresee the problem, and tackle the problem before it ultimately \"becomes a challenge\". Not merely taking the easiest way out of the problem (by importing more people)--all the way until it becomes a challenge for infrastructure..[/quote]So I ask for the 3rd time, what is YOUR solution? (Actually, I already know the answer).
It is only PART of the solution, for the reasons I have stated ad nauseum in this thread, for which I have tried to at least educate myself on the issues that we as a small country face economically and strategically. So I don't go off on an ignorant rant about population growth until I understand to a degree about what underpins it. And in my view a larger population base is necessary to give us some additional scale, to help our local industries.3Boys:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]
And the solution is? Keep growing the population until we cannot grow any further? And you accept such solution?
Is there a consequence of this, of course! Just like there is a consequence to not playing Nintendo, which is, no fun for that afternoon. BUT, there is a broader reason why we accept some pain.
So yes, I accept population growth for now up to a point where it becomes a challenge for infrastructure, because I understand why it needs to be done, that it is ONLY one part of a broader strategy, and I understand the pain and consequences, and what things are being done to mitigate. Of course the government knows the pain, we tell them about it every single day through various channels. Why don't they just do the popular thing and completely shut off the flow? Because it will kill our economy and our government don't do things just because they are popular. That's a great mark of leadership, don't you think? -
limlim:
And you have no way of testing any of those hypothesis above, do you?
WRONG deduction.3Boys:
Right, so we take the ministers salaries down another 70%, and now those same policies become acceptable........
What kind of perverted logic is that?
You make all kinds of assumptions. An ordinary leadership would just have done the simple popular thing and shut off the flow years ago. Isn't that what the opposition is proposing? Nothing new or creative in that idea EITHER.
If take the salary down 70%, it makes the salary acceptable for the quality of the policies presented now.
As for what policies is acceptable for extra ordinary salary.. I have no answer coz we have not seen such a policy yet
. -
3Boys:
And you consider this to be responsible behavior? Take a gamble on an unproven team because you can't stomach some difficult government policies, that may have other benefits? Sorry to keep hammering on this but I really find this preposterous. Changing government is not like changing GPs!
PAP was an unproven team (party) back in the '50s, were they not?
And if we do not try another doctor out, how are we ever gonna know if there are better doctors out there? -
mum_sugoku:
Go gamble with your children's future if you wish, I have other views on the matter.3Boys:
And you consider this to be responsible behavior? Take a gamble on an unproven team because you can't stomach some difficult government policies, that may have other benefits? Sorry to keep hammering on this but I really find this preposterous. Changing government is not like changing GPs!
PAP was an unproven team (party) back in the '50s, were they not?
And if we do not try another doctor out, how are we ever gonna know if there are better doctors out there? -
mum_sugoku:
Frankly, I too don't know if there are better people out there..
Yes elections is how we choose those we think can lead us.Sun_2010:
[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]
No. We rely on them to find solutions. And if they couldn't, we'll have to find someone else who could.
Isn't that what election is for?
But is there is who is capable of doing it beter in the current options we have? In all honesty there isn't , IMHO.
And the fact govt seems to be going all out to gather people's opinion and genuineness needs and balance it with the realities of Singapore and the global environment . Constructive feedback is a great mechanism, but dissing is not.
Govt is just like the doctor, we develop health problem, we tell them the problem, the symptons, etc. but we just have to rely on the expertise of the doctor to cure us.. And if this doctor can't cure our illness, then we'll have to find another one.. We wouldn't know if the next doctor would be able to cure us , but shouldn't we at least give it a try?[/quote]But when the doctor give you a solution you will have to follow it to be able to get better right? If you don't follow the instructions and take the medications, no matter how many doctors you go through, you will not recover.
So far, which opposition member has come up and given a good enough solution to address some of the issues that we are facing and may be facing in the future. Yes there are many who also harp about the population growth and all the unhappiness it brings. But have any of them truly addressed how we can stay competitive, how to ensure we can stay afloat amidst the rising competition from the countries around us?
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