Population woes
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3Boys:
Compete nonsense puck from thin air? so the million dollar profits posted by listed companies are fake isit?
Your assertion that a small drop in profits will not affect the businesses much is complete nonsense, plucked from thin air. You have it in your mind that you are stating facts when it is really pure speculation since you have not demonstrated any understanding of what drives businesses.
The profit figures in BLACK & WHITE are speculation?
Stop making simple thing complicated and confusing to layman.
Revenue - Cost = PROFIT. period. -
3Boys:
Possible.. bcoz, I believe most pple as well, are only exposed to 1 side of the story.
You only look at one side of the story.
I am also an employee of my company, but I try to understand the constraints my employer works under.
And a short statement like \"biz go bust if no cheap workers\" doesn't tell the full story either, how you expect workers to swallow that?
As for the details in running a biz.. I can accept that indeed some biz, especially F&B and labour intensive ones need help in that area. So let's not debate on those since there is no disagreement on the need for affordable workers.
However, for PMETs, it is different. For most companies, PMETs are indirect cost, and I doubt it can be 50% of running cost, especially for manufacturing with turnover in millions. I don't see the mass influx of FT necessary to sustain these business. Of coz, This not not include those send from HQ which are deemed as necessary support. I only talked about those recruited locally. -
Lilac66:
Totally MISSED the issue.TIGHTENING FOREIGN LABOUR INFLOWS
Nov 03, 2012
From ST insight.
Have we gone too far?
How big a price is Singapore paying for tightening the tap on foreign manpower? Insight reports on economic growth forgone, jobs lost and the potential outflow of business and investments.
By Robin Chan & Janice Heng
WHEN a North American company thought of starting an operation in Asia this year, Singapore was one of its top choices.
After being wooed by the Economic Development Board (EDB), it plumped for Singapore early this year.
To its horror, the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) rejected its application to bring in seven foreign executives on high-skilled Employment Passes (EPs).
It was only after the EDB stepped in and talked to the MOM that the company finally secured those seven passes.
For foreign firms which come to Singapore expecting a smooth run, such hiccups can come as a surprise.
These pple are send from the HQ. Naturally, the company needs them. I believe most locals are not concerned about these workers and they are small in number anyway. And, they do NOT really compete with locals for jobs anyway.
The concern is the large number of FTs hired/sourced LOCALLY.
When they hire locally, why do they need to hire foreigner instead of locals? -
Always bring in those "non-issue" and use as smoke screen from the REAL issue which they avoid.
FW is good example… tighten FW for what… most pple recognise the need for them to keep biz.
Now, they quote the example of the FT sent from HQ…
totally missed the problem area. -
limlim:
Compete nonsense puck from thin air? so the million dollar profits posted by listed companies are fake isit?3Boys:
Your assertion that a small drop in profits will not affect the businesses much is complete nonsense, plucked from thin air. You have it in your mind that you are stating facts when it is really pure speculation since you have not demonstrated any understanding of what drives businesses.
The profit figures in BLACK & WHITE are speculation?
Stop making simple thing complicated and confusing to layman.
Revenue - Cost = PROFIT. period.
I am NOT trying to make things confusing. BUT, this is the crux of the problem when people take an overly simplistic view of numbers. I have tried very very hard to boil it down and explain how these things work and to help people look beyond the headline numbers, which is all people do and hence arrive at the same erroneous conclusions that you do.
Millions of dollar based on what revenue and what number of employees?
If a company makes 10 million dollars of profit on an employee base of 100,000 people and revenue of 1 billion, that's only a productivity of 100 dollar per employee and margin of 1%. To you a 10 million dollar profit is a lot and should be distributed to workers, to any other observer, this is a company in deep trouble.
Don't be fooled by the headline numbers, you got to dig below to understand. -
limlim:
What do you mean they are INDIRECT costs? Please don't throw such terms around out of context. Labour impacts bottom line directly.
As for the details in running a biz.. I can accept that indeed some biz, especially F&B and labour intensive ones need help in that area. So let's not debate on those since there is no disagreement on the need for affordable workers.
However, for PMETs, it is different. For most companies, PMETs are indirect cost, and I doubt it can be 50% of running cost, especially for manufacturing with turnover in millions. I don't see the mass influx of FT necessary to sustain these business. Of coz, This not not include those send from HQ which are deemed as necessary support. I only talked about those recruited locally.
So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?
It is clear from these last 2 posts that you really have no clue. I wrote a long post on margins, yet you choose to focus on raw numbers instead, reveals a complete lack of understanding of what matters to businesses.
If Microsoft made $1 billion in profits in 2012, would you consider that an obscene amount of profits which should immediately result in a pay rise for workers?
<http://www.microsoft.com/investor/reports/ar11/financial_highlights/index.html>
Microsoft turned over nearly $70 billion in 2011 and $1 billion in profits for MSFT would be a total disaster and they probably need to be finding a way of cutting costs and growing top line.
You can't just look at one number and jump to some inappropriate conclusion. You ave no sense of proportionality. I have written at great length and pleaded with you to go educate yourself a little on how these things work for companies, please find a few local companies and dig through their annual reports, over a few years. A company with a MARGIN (extremely important number) of 10%, with labour cost of 50% of total costs (not unusual for quite a few industries), if they raise labour costs by 10% ($3000 pm to $3300 pm, for example), would approximately HALVE its margin from 10% to 5%. This is an economic/accounting fact, and I am not trying to confuse anyone, I am trying to EXPLAIN that it is not as simple as you think!
I am NOT trying to confuse you, I am trying to make you understand what companies need to look at when they make decisions on costs, salaries, or ultimately whether to continue a business. In fact, you are confused right now because you wonder why, with all the seemingly huge profit numbers, why companies don't raise wages or complain about competitiveness. I am trying to explain to you, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE look beyond JUST A SINGLE number, it is not the only indicator of the company's health! -
limlim:
To you, as long as they don't fit your understanding of the world, they are somehow throwing smoke or trying to pull a fast one.Always bring in those \"non-issue\" and use as smoke screen from the REAL issue which they avoid.
FW is good example.. tighten FW for what.. most pple recognise the need for them to keep biz.
Now, they quote the example of the FT sent from HQ..
totally missed the problem area.
It can never be that you have a faulty understanding of what concerns businesses. Companies and people like myself are just throwing out numbers to confuse the layman.
IN your world, only PMETS need to be protected, upper management, bring from HQ, production line, open to foreigners.
And I thought you were taking a holistic view. -
3Boys:
My job is immune to FT competition.
So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?
That's all I want to say now. -
limlim:
Don't just stop here and forget everything else I wrote.
My job is immune to FT competition.3Boys:
So the only group that are deserving of wage protection are the PMETs? Because you are one of them? Why not the production line workers, why not upper management?
That's all I want to say now. -
hmmm....mindef or some stat board under them....that's my guess
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