TC’s computer & financial system

[3Boys]

limlim:

If a new party elected by the pple were to come into power.. will they be in some way or the other at the mercy of the privatized corporations?


Will the pple be at the mercy of the corporations?

The corporations are made up of people, for heaven's sake! People work in them, get paid by them, own them, participate in their profits, benefit from their taxes, use their goods and services!

Don't you own a cellphone by Samsung or Apple or HTC? Don't you have a laptop by Toshiba/Dell/Lenovo/Sony? Isn't your broadband MIO or Starhub? Don't you bank with DBS/OCBC/Citibank? Don't you fly SIA/JetStar/AirAsia/QANTAS?

Good grief! Why do you always put it as Us vs Them?

I knew it was going down this path, whgich is why it is completely OT for this thread. You always bring it round to BIG BAD COMPANIES, when this TC thing has NOTHING to do with that.

Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were 2 geeks in a garage 30 years ago, ordinary (but smart) kids with a dream to build something better. Mark Zuckerberg, Soichiro Honda, Ray Kroc (MacDonald's) were all PEOPLE with dreams and the temerity and guts to get out there and start something of value. According to you, they should all be vilified, guillotined for exploting the workers and masses, and building successful companies off them. We should all be living in the pre-industrial age, since that's how these inhuman things called corporations became so powerful and exploitative.

[limlim]

3Boys:

And why do you assume key assets are perform better under the control of public sector than private sector? Aren't you constantly griping about how badly our public services perform, even those under the ministries?

If that is the case lets shut down all the hawker centres and high end restaurants and make sure the only provider of food and meals is the government. Lets close Mt Elizabeth and Gleneagles Medical centres, lets shut down Starhub and Singtel.

The notion that key services needs to be entirely the province of the 'public' via the government is unsubstantiated knee-jerk rubbish.

public transport is a monopoly. Hawker centers and restaurant is NOT a monopoly. If they privatize public transport and it is not monopoly or duo ploy, sure.. But the case now is it is not.

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

If a new party elected by the pple were to come into power.. will they be in some way or the other at the mercy of the privatized corporations?


Will the pple be at the mercy of the corporations?

The corporations are made up of people, for heaven's sake! People work in them, get paid by them, own them, participate in their profits, benefit from their taxes, use their goods and services!

Don't you own a cellphone by Samsung or Apple or HTC? Don't you have a laptop by Toshiba/Dell/Lenovo/Sony? Isn't your broadband MIO or Starhub? Don't you bank with DBS/OCBC/Citibank? Don't you fly SIA/JetStar/AirAsia/QANTAS?

Good grief! Why do you always put it as Us vs Them?

I knew it was going down this path, whgich is why it is completely OT for this thread. You always bring it round to BIG BAD COMPANIES, when this TC thing has NOTHING to do with that.

Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were 2 geeks in a garage 30 years ago, ordinary (but smart) kids with a dream to build something better. Mark Zuckerberg, Soichiro Honda, Ray Kroc (MacDonald's) were all PEOPLE with dreams and the temerity and guts to get out there and start something of value. According to you, they should all be vilified, guillotined for exploting the workers and masses, and building successful companies off them. We should all be living in the pre-industrial age, since that's how these inhuman things called corporations became so powerful and exploitative.

Your rebuttal has gone totally out of line.

I am not against big companies. I'm saying why public transport must privatize and then hereby justify the pursue of profits and the obligation towards providing affordable and reliable services is not the priority anymore.

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

[quote=\"limlim\"]If a new party elected by the pple were to come into power.. will they be in some way or the other at the mercy of the privatized corporations?


Will the pple be at the mercy of the corporations?

The corporations are made up of people, for heaven's sake! People work in them, get paid by them, own them, participate in their profits, benefit from their taxes, use their goods and services!

Don't you own a cellphone by Samsung or Apple or HTC? Don't you have a laptop by Toshiba/Dell/Lenovo/Sony? Isn't your broadband MIO or Starhub? Don't you bank with DBS/OCBC/Citibank? Don't you fly SIA/JetStar/AirAsia/QANTAS?

Good grief! Why do you always put it as Us vs Them?

I knew it was going down this path, whgich is why it is completely OT for this thread. You always bring it round to BIG BAD COMPANIES, when this TC thing has NOTHING to do with that.

Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak were 2 geeks in a garage 30 years ago, ordinary (but smart) kids with a dream to build something better. Mark Zuckerberg, Soichiro Honda, Ray Kroc (MacDonald's) were all PEOPLE with dreams and the temerity and guts to get out there and start something of value. According to you, they should all be vilified, guillotined for exploting the workers and masses, and building successful companies off them. We should all be living in the pre-industrial age, since that's how these inhuman things called corporations became so powerful and exploitative.

Your rebuttal has gone totally out of line.

I am not against big companies. I'm saying why public transport must privatize and then hereby justify the pursue of profits and the obligation towards providing affordable and reliable services is not the priority anymore.[/quote]Nope, you said \".. will they be in some way or the other at the mercy of the privatized corporations?
Will the pple be at the mercy of the corporations?\"

My reply was completely 'in-line'. You have stated over various threads that you were against companies making big profits, that companies abuse their employees, that shareholders and landlords are profiteering.

I know where you stand.

Governments worldwide, even big ones like the US, socialist ones like Sweden, if they want their countries to prosper, ALWAYS listen to companies' needs, even if they don't always act on them.

[3Boys]

limlim:

Your rebuttal has gone totally out of line.

I am not against big companies. I'm saying why public transport must privatize and then hereby justify the pursue of profits and the obligation towards providing affordable and reliable services is not the priority anymore.

And WHY do you think that by making these public that services will suddenly improve and that the cost of operations will go down? What EVIDENCE do you have that this will be the case? How many loss-making, inefficient public transport systems are there around the world? You can go look it up yourself, since you think it's such a magic bullet.

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

And why do you assume key assets are perform better under the control of public sector than private sector? Aren't you constantly griping about how badly our public services perform, even those under the ministries?

If that is the case lets shut down all the hawker centres and high end restaurants and make sure the only provider of food and meals is the government. Lets close Mt Elizabeth and Gleneagles Medical centres, lets shut down Starhub and Singtel.

The notion that key services needs to be entirely the province of the 'public' via the government is unsubstantiated knee-jerk rubbish.

public transport is a monopoly. Hawker centers and restaurant is NOT a monopoly. If they privatize public transport and it is not monopoly or duo ploy, sure.. But the case now is it is not.

So you'd prefer they build 2 sets of MRT lines? What evidence do you have that having 2 or more operators on the same route will improve services and lower fares? Has taxi fares gone down with the introduction of more taxi operators? Or are you suggesting that transport fares be subsidised across the board?

[raysusan]

http://www.ahtc.org.sg/ahtc/media-release-28-december-2012/

[quote]A Lesson on the Need for Alternatives

I refer to the media responses by Dr Teo Ho Pin and Mr Chandra Das on Christmas Eve regarding the issue of the sale of the PAP-managed town councils’ computer and financial systems and the subsequent termination of the systems at Aljunied-Hougang Town Council (AHTC) by Action Information Management Pte Ltd (AIM) after General Election (GE) 2011.

First, it should be clarified that during the post-GE transition period from May till August 2011, the PAP-appointed Managing Agent at the former Aljunied Town Council was still in place and assisted the incoming management to liaise with AIM. AIM had issued notice of termination of the systems, effective 1 Aug 2011. The new management at AHTC had requested an additional month, from 1 to 31 Aug 2011, mainly to do parallel testing of the front-end of the system, which AIM agreed to after intercession. After 31 Aug, the former system was no longer operational at AHTC.

It is regrettable that both Dr Teo’s and Mr Das’ statements have been calculated to side-step the most critical question of how the public interest was served when the PAP-managed Town Councils, which developed the computing and financial systems at significant cost and co-owned them, sold them off to a third party which could exercise rights of termination if there was a “material change” in the composition of a Town Council. What justification was there for the Town Councils to relinquish ownership and leave the continuity of Town Council operations at the mercy of a third party? Residents all over Singapore have a right to know.

Dr Teo has now confirmed that this third party, AIM, is “fully-owned” by the PAP. In other words, the PAP-managed Town Councils saw it fit to sell away their ownership of the systems, developed with public funds, to a political party, which presumably could act in its own interests when exercising its rights to terminate the contracts. Was that the very reason why there was such a termination clause in the first place? And what arrangement, if any, is now in place at the PAP-managed Town Councils to cater for any subsequent “material change”?

As for developing an alternative replacement IT system for town management for AHTC, AIM reportedly said that AHTC had indicated sometime in June 2011 that it was developing its own system to serve residents. At the time, the Workers’ Party (WP) MPs who became the incoming management of AHTC were acutely aware of the possible termination of the computing and financial systems at short notice by AIM, hanging over AHTC like the proverbial Sword of Damocles.

To safeguard the interests of residents who elected the WP Team and gave the WP MPs the mandate to manage the town, AHTC worked overtime to upscale the town management system in use in Hougang TC, which had been tried and tested. AHTC counts itself fortunate to have been able to leverage on the Hougang TC system, which had been developed and in use for more than a decade, customized specifically for town council management requirements. If anything, this episode clearly demonstrates the risks to Singaporeans of having a lack of alternatives in every sense.

SYLVIA LIM
CHAIRMAN
ALJUNIED-HOUGANG TOWN COUNCIL

28 December 2012[/quote]

[limlim]

3Boys:

Nope, you said \".. will they be in some way or the other at the mercy of the privatized corporations?
Will the pple be at the mercy of the corporations?\"

My reply was completely 'in-line'. You have stated over various threads that you were against companies making big profits, that companies abuse their employees, that shareholders and landlords are profiteering.

I know where you stand.

Governments worldwide, even big ones like the US, socialist ones like Sweden, if they want their countries to prosper, ALWAYS listen to companies' needs, even if they don't always act on them.

That is in relation to critical assets like public transport, power stations, even TC related operations and that some are the pillars of a country.

I'm not against companies making profits. For a private company, NATURALLY they are profit oriented.

I am against privatizing public transport such that pursuing profit became NATURAL for an entity that is supposed to owe an obligation to provide affordable and reliable service to the people.

Please do not twist what I said.

[limlim]

3Boys:

And WHY do you think that by making these public that services will suddenly improve and that the cost of operations will go down? What EVIDENCE do you have that this will be the case? How many loss-making, inefficient public transport systems are there around the world? You can go look it up yourself, since you think it's such a magic bullet.

Before SMRT was privatized, have you ever heard of major breakdowns? and what are the frequency of massive breakdowns?

Don't say NS & EW line is older now.. Circle line had a major breakdown within barely 1 week of operation!

Doesn't the facts speaks for itself already?

Same company, same country.. what comparison can be fairer than that?

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

And WHY do you think that by making these public that services will suddenly improve and that the cost of operations will go down? What EVIDENCE do you have that this will be the case? How many loss-making, inefficient public transport systems are there around the world? You can go look it up yourself, since you think it's such a magic bullet.

Before SMRT was privatized, have you ever heard of major breakdowns? and what are the frequency of massive breakdowns?

Don't say NS & EW line is older now.. Circle line had a major breakdown within barely 1 week of operation!

Doesn't the facts speaks for itself already?

Same company, same country.. what comparison can be fairer than that?

So a government stat board could never screw things up?

I thought you had plenty of complaints about the education system....

If you so little faith in the government in the privatisation of the public transport system, why do you have so much faith in them actually running it?

Illogical.

I have NO faith that our government officers can run SMRT better than a professional private company, with a profit motive.

It's as simple as that. There is plenty of proof in other countries, if you bothered to take a look.