Budget 2013

[hquek]

Regarding the hawker stalls, I think it’s very impt that the ones bidding are the ones actually managing the stalls. No point renting out at $320 or whatever tender price if that same person is turning around and subletting it to another person for 10x the amount he is paying.


Recent rules have disallowed the subsale, but I can’t recall if sublet is still allowed.

[concern2]

hquek:

Regarding the hawker stalls, I think it's very impt that the ones bidding are the ones actually managing the stalls. No point renting out at $320 or whatever tender price if that same person is turning around and subletting it to another person for 10x the amount he is paying.


Recent rules have disallowed the subsale, but I can't recall if sublet is still allowed.

Agree.

[Coolkidsrock2]

concern2:

HVR:

Talking about speeches, Mr Sitoh of Potong Pasir made one excellence speech yesterday in parliament about trust and expectation. Everyone should put their political alliance aside and go read it. Reflect what he said and think he make sense or not. Very sorry I am quite illiterate in computer, don't know how to attach link.

Actually hor, not say don't want to read leh, liddat not fair to readers. Couldn't find full speeches (in words) on PAP website nor parliament website. WP website happens to be very up-to-date on all the speeches. Any suggestions?

Attach link? Can just go to URL address, right click to copy URL, then paste it in your post here.

It is available in the physical copy of today's Straits Times.

I also agree that it is a relevant speech.

[pirate]

concern2:

You see har, pirate, if it costs only $320 per month, it will be easier to survive as you don't need that high a turnover to cover the rent even if it isn't a high traffic location, compared to one that costs $3,200.


Question is: Is NEA for profit-making, or is it opened to enable THE PEOPLE to make profits?

NEA has already scrapped minimum bids. Non high-traffic location can be had for as little as $20 a month.

Why cannot both NEA and the people make profits? NEA surpluses go into gov coffers which then pays for gov expenditures including assistance to the needy.

The issue is should NEA aim to keep prices so low to make sure that the lowest income person can afford hawker centre food (even that is not certain because there is no guarantee that the stallholders will sell cheap), even if it means that it subsidizes EVERYBODY ELSE regardless of their income levels? Or is it better to just give assistance directly to those who are really at the low income level?

In my opinion, if somebody cannot be bothered even to walk a few steps more to the corner nobody goes to for cheaper food, then he/she does not require assistance. In my opinion, cooked food is not a 'need' for the vast majority of people. With the exception of those who are physically incapable of cooking, they are just too lazy to cook their own meals. Homecooked meals using the same ingredients are almost always cheaper.

There has been a lot of calls for the gov to subsidize this, that and the other without any regard to whether the subsidy is being given to those who neither need nor deserve the public assistance.

I am against this whole idea of giving subsidies to the extent of distorting the market, then resorting to balloting with the result of giving some lucky blokes windfalls from public funds. We already have a balloting scheme for giving people windfalls. Actually we have three. They are called 4-D, Big Sweep and Toto.

[winchester]

pirate:

In my opinion, if somebody cannot be bothered even to walk a few steps more to the corner nobody goes to for cheaper food, then he/she does not require assistance. In my opinion, cooked food is not a 'need' for the vast majority of people. With the exception of those who are physically incapable of cooking, they are just too lazy to cook their own meals. Homecooked meals using the same ingredients are almost always cheaper.

harsh, but true. :goodpost:

[concern2]

pirate:

concern2:

You see har, pirate, if it costs only $320 per month, it will be easier to survive as you don't need that high a turnover to cover the rent even if it isn't a high traffic location, compared to one that costs $3,200.


Question is: Is NEA for profit-making, or is it opened to enable THE PEOPLE to make profits?

NEA has already scrapped minimum bids. Non high-traffic location can be had for as little as $20 a month.

Can share which stall(s) enjoy the $20 a month rental that you are talking about? And how many in all? Donno why, but the $8 bypass comes to mind..

pirate:

Why cannot both NEA and the people make profits? NEA surpluses go into gov coffers which then pays for gov expenditures including assistance to the needy.

This is the result of why garmen is earning and people are getting poorer and poorer. Where are the avenues for self-reliance and entrepreneurship? Do you think people prefer to take assistance or to be self-reliant in making a living? When people take assistance, they don't learn anything. When they are given a chance to make a living for themselves, they learn, they work, they have a more meaningful life, and they complain less about how the garmen runs the country.

Continue with the present way of tender instead of providing more opportunities for the lower income, and the garmen will have to give out more and more assistance. Isn't this a trend that we are seeing now?

pirate:

In my opinion, if somebody cannot be bothered even to walk a few steps more to the corner nobody goes to for cheaper food, then he/she does not require assistance.

Frankly, that's kinda funny. Can give me real life example of \"the corner nobody goes to\" and offers cheap food that nobody bothers to even walk a few more steps to?

pirate:

Homecooked meals using the same ingredients are almost always cheaper.

Have you actually made any calculations to come to this conclusion? If you had, can share how your calcution was done?

pirate:

There has been a lot of calls for the gov to subsidize this, that and the other without any regard to whether the subsidy is being given to those who neither need nor deserve the public assistance.

My response to this has been mentioned above. It is the result of the gov's own doing. Also, I don't see how NEA making low rentals available is taken as providing 'subsidies' - unless you are saying NEA could be making more money if otherwise. So, what essentially is the role of NEA? Please help to enlighten me.

[pirate]

concern2:

Can share which stall(s) enjoy the $20 a month rental that you are talking about? And how many in all? Donno why, but the $8 bypass comes to mind..

All successful tenderers are published on the NEA website. Enough said.

concern2:

Have you actually made any calculations to come to this conclusion? If you had, can share how your calcution was done?

Feel free to do your own wet market shopping, do your own calculations, and tell us otherwise.

[concern2]

Coolkidsrock2:

concern2:

[quote=\"HVR\"]Talking about speeches, Mr Sitoh of Potong Pasir made one excellence speech yesterday in parliament about trust and expectation. Everyone should put their political alliance aside and go read it. Reflect what he said and think he make sense or not. Very sorry I am quite illiterate in computer, don't know how to attach link.

Actually hor, not say don't want to read leh, liddat not fair to readers. Couldn't find full speeches (in words) on PAP website nor parliament website. WP website happens to be very up-to-date on all the speeches. Any suggestions?

Attach link? Can just go to URL address, right click to copy URL, then paste it in your post here.

It is available in the physical copy of today's Straits Times.

I also agree that it is a relevant speech.[/quote]Aiya, wasted, missed it. Can anyone post the article here?
.....Only in ST ah...so EXclusive ah..

[concern2]

pirate:

concern2:

Can share which stall(s) enjoy the $20 a month rental that you are talking about? And how many in all? Donno why, but the $8 bypass comes to mind..

All successful tenderers are published on the NEA website. Enough said.

Oh, I thought you'd know more that can help enlighten me quickly... :sad: Ok, lah, will go check if I have the time... BTW, got any quick links? Can post here?

concern2:

Have you actually made any calculations to come to this conclusion? If you had, can share how your calcution was done?

pirate:

Feel free to do your own wet market shopping, do your own calculations, and tell us otherwise.

Haha! Yes, I did my calculations - who wouldn't if they have to do a fair share of cooking, shopping, eating out and ta bao personally? Frankly speaking, I don't see eating out and cooking as comparing apples to apples, so I found your argument about people being lazy to cook and cooking is generally cheaper than eating out is flawed - and narrow

I think a lot depends on family size and whether one has a full-time cook , be it a relative or domestic helper. Those who have small families living in new housing estates who have no domestic helpers and need to work and take care of family and work will know what I mean. So for some, eating out has become a necessity, and having home-cooked food a luxury.

Hm...I thought you have done some calculations yourself so I could learn something from you.. :sad:

Interesting also that you say 'wet market'. The place that I stay in, we have only 1 wet market within walking distance, and it isn't cheap compared to the NTUC which is also within walking distance. So, essentially, it doesn't make any difference whether it is wet market or not.

[blueblue]

Oh yes, there are food stalls rental at $20 per month.


That is only if one does not mind the very low human traffic. My hb's friend was given such a stall in jurong. He was not able to make a decent living due to very bad business. The hawker centre has a very poor layout. The poor fellow ended up renting another better located stall in same hawker centre with a 4 figures rental.