Pat's Schoolhouse
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empressplace:
I don't quite understand why the class sizes of Pat's go up so much in K2. We pay a very high fee and it's because we want smaller class size. 21 in a class is too big. Chiltern House seems to have 14 in a class only. Mtdt - think you should complain.
One of the very main reason I finally did not choose to register at Patschoolhouse is due to the class size. I saw so many questions about why class-size so huge versus school fees. I think as parents we just need to accept this fact - that due to the high costs of everything from premises rental, teachers salary, inflation etc., most school can no longer sustain small class size unless they only have bare minimum facilities and programme plus support staff.
Therefore it is futile to ask all this questions about class size. If you want small class size (eg. 1:5 or 6), I think monthly school fees would be from SGD1,500 to SGD2,000 or more at least.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong. -
Does anyone know if Chiltern House follows the class size limit of 14? THe issue is Pat’s should at least stick to the class size mentioned on their website of 1:10. Fees should be proportional to class size. Otherwise older kids are subsidizing the younger classes. Infant care is known to be expensive because of the small ratio needed but I believe Pat’s charges the same rate at playgroup to K2 but class ratio increases over the grades.
I think some parents are prepared to pay higher rates if these schools can deliver what they want eg smaller class size, better food, nicer premises. -
empressplace:
Does anyone know if Chiltern House follows the class size limit of 14? THe issue is Pat's should at least stick to the class size mentioned on their website of 1:10. Fees should be proportional to class size. Otherwise older kids are subsidizing the younger classes. Infant care is known to be expensive because of the small ratio needed but I believe Pat's charges the same rate at playgroup to K2 but class ratio increases over the grades.
I think some parents are prepared to pay higher rates if these schools can deliver what they want eg smaller class size, better food, nicer premises.
Hi empressplace,
I believe Chiltern House does follow what they mention. I'm not too sure abt K1 since my girl is currently in N1. The ratio is 2:12. -
mtdt:
Mine is turning 3. I thk several yrs younger than urs. The assts I've met so far speak 'perfect' singlish. I don't profess to speak well but it's certainly appalling when a child starts inserting la & lehs when he never used to. Why would I pay a bomb only to hv him speak this way? Also noticed the assts hv bad attitude. Really wasn't this bad at the previous branch. I've a whole list of other observations that aren't v encouraging. Kinda disappointed.Hi how old is ur kid?
Asst- hmm which one? The one I come into contact hardly speak.. And everything I ask her, her reply is dun noe! So I give up and hardly talk to her. Will go direct to class Tr instead.
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Zoukie:
Just wondering whether does Chiltern House provide regular cirriculum update on what the children have been learning during the week and next?empressplace:
Does anyone know if Chiltern House follows the class size limit of 14? THe issue is Pat's should at least stick to the class size mentioned on their website of 1:10. Fees should be proportional to class size. Otherwise older kids are subsidizing the younger classes. Infant care is known to be expensive because of the small ratio needed but I believe Pat's charges the same rate at playgroup to K2 but class ratio increases over the grades.
I think some parents are prepared to pay higher rates if these schools can deliver what they want eg smaller class size, better food, nicer premises.
Hi empressplace,
I believe Chiltern House does follow what they mention. I'm not too sure abt K1 since my girl is currently in N1. The ratio is 2:12. -
DC Mummy:
Hi DC Mummy,
Just wondering whether does Chiltern House provide regular cirriculum update on what the children have been learning during the week and next?
Yes, Her teacher will email me every week on what they had learn for the week. We are given term calendar (like time table) in the beginning of the term. -
Yes but the thing is, on the Pat's Schoolhouse official website, they OFFICIALLY state that they have a low ratio of 1:7 for this age group.
When I registered my dd and asked the ex-principal about this, she told me firmly that there would be max 14 kids in the class. Anyone who has visited the school can see that the classroom isn't really that big too. This MCYS ratio of 2:24 might be acceptable in a childcare which charges only few hundred dollars a month, but for a \"premium\" one that is charging us $1300+ a month?!
I visited the new campus @ Raffles and their classroom is even smaller, with same ratio!! (2:14) That's the one with the $1700+ fees. So you see, higher fees does not translate to lower ratios...
Not sure if this is because ever since Knowledge Universe took over, they may have become more profit-minded than before. Remember that they also own Odyssey, which was beset with problems at their Alexandra campus (if you read the expat forums you'll see alot of expats complaining about how they were so $$$-faced which resulted in high turnover, teachers not caring about the children, parents felt like the staff only cared about $$$ and not the kids' welfare, etc)
That's why the Alexandra Odyssey closed down and was converted to Pat's. BUT, the same management that owns Odyssey also owns Pat's!crystalbelle08:
Hi Zow,
Actually 15kids to 2 teachers has already exceeded what they are suppose to have for playgroup which is 2:14
http://www.patschoolhouse.com/programmes/playgroup/curriculum
Hope they will really stick to 15 and not slowly increase to 16 and then 17....
In any case, the mcys guideline is 1:12!
So they have the right to increase to 2:24! :stupid: -
empressplace:
I guess different kids and different parents have different ways of adapting to new situations. I'm a sahm who has been taking care of my dd since she was born, so preschool was a whole new experience for both of us. I supposed if your kids are really raring to go to school, and really doesn't have separation anxiety, you could just drop them off on the first day.Re orientation for new kids, I think they believe the best policy is to say a firm good bye and go off. I was told we could stay in school for the first few days. However I notice that all the parents just dropped off the kids and went off. These were parents with older children and experienced. So I also followed them and left. I didn't feel any pressure from the teachers to leave. But it was odd for me to stay when everyone else wasn't!
On at least 2 occasions that I have seen the food, there were lots of meat and vegetables in one dish served together with rice. I think the food is good enough.
What really disturbed me was that there were other new kids on dd's first day in school. Which means that there were a lot of wailing kids- at least 3- and the teachers really look overwhelmed. If the parents were allowed to stay with the kids longer, that would have helped with the wailing to a certain extent. If they don't want parents to hang around, then perhaps they should stagger the enrollment of the new kids?
My daughter didn't cry on the first day because I got to spend half an hour with her. But she started crying on the second day and for days after that.
A lot of other preschools allow parents to stay with their kids for at least the first 3 days, with gradually decreasing duration. It is expected that all kids will take time to adapt, and just because the parents are allowed to stay with the kids doesn't mean that the kids will not cry. The main purpose of having parents hang around is so that there is a gradual transition from known caregivers to new caregivers, and to reassure the kiddos that we're not abandoning them. If this transition is not handled properly, the poor kiddos will need a lot more time to settle down. PSH is so big on being child-centred, so it's really a big surprise that they haven't come across studies showing that a gradual transition is best.
As for the food, I've visited PSH 3 or more times before enrolling dd. And because i visited on the same days, I saw the same time of food being served: soupy porride (with very little rice) with carrots. There was supposed to be meat, but I couldn't really see them. After dd started attending psh, I've observed the food that was being served on most of the days that I picked her up. Some things: very soupy stuff, with mainly carrots. I've checked out the menu and what they serve do not correlate with what's on the menu.
There are other things like the exits and entrances not being secured etc that alarm me as well...
The reason why I'm so upset is that I'm not paying peanuts, and I shouldn't be getting monkeys. I enrolled dd in psh, and not in chiltern house or other preschools, because I thought that PSH provided a well-rounded education and a conducive environment. And as a premium preschool, I really expected more in terms of food, teacher quality, admin quality, operating procedures etc... I don't expect them to be perfect, but I expect them to be good enough.
The good thing about all this is that the management has been quite understanding when I raise my concerns to them. I hope that they understand that I'm not trying to make things difficult for them, but am suggesting ways in which they can make the place better for all kids and parents. Sort of like doing a free quality check for them.
I'm wondering if the fact that PSH has been bought over by knowledge universe has made any diff in their beliefs and practices? Are they like more profit-oriented now? -
I’ve heard that diff PSH branch is diff.
Any views of PSH Serangoon?
Anyone’s kid is there for half day only?
My child is 2008, am thinking of placing her for half day. At the same time also exploring church kindergartens, how diff is PSH programs for half day for younger kids of 3yo compared to church kindys? Many thanks in advance for any advise. -
Omgmum
I think you should have insisted on staying with your kid if you really think it helps. I don't think they would have stopped you. For some kids, parents hanging around may actually slow down the orientation process. Perhaps that's why they don't encourage it. But you know your kid best so if you don't agree, it's OK to explain and ask to stay. There is a boy in my son's class who cried for weeks and I found out later from his mum that for months later, he wasn't really participating in class. After 9- 10 months, he was finally participating and I can see him blossoming and looking chirpy. I think his mum knows his temperament from previous experience and was not too alarmed with this.
You would also find out very quickly that it is necessary to scale down your expectations about Singapore preschools because of the shortage of good preschool teachers and rising costs. After all, it is a business and from my own experience, premium preschools have no shortage of takers notwithstanding the high price. We can certainly give feedback but real change would only come if there is serious competition. I understand Mindchamps is one of the new contenders for the premium range. However as of now, the ones with proven track records are Pat's Schoolhouse and Chiltern House based on the feedback I have heard.
Between the 2 chains, the impression I have is that Chiltern House is much better in administration and communication but Pat's seems slightly better in promoting bilingualism. Another major factor is whether there is a centre near your home in the first place.
Finding good local preschool teachers who speak good English is likely to be a serious challenge in Singapore, maybe more so than finding good Chinese speakers as there are many PRC teachers in preschools now. If we are not even happy with what premium chains provide, imagine what it is like further down the price range. For example, I observed some teachers at the popular St James Church Kindergarten on one occasion. I am not too sure if they were the teachers or teacher assistants or just aunties helping out the kids in cleaning themselves. Some were speaking in a very local Singaporean accent.
Personally, among the issues one may have, I would rate the quality of the teachers and their language proficiency as foremost in my list of criteria. I would raise a huge fuss if there are teaching assistants in Pat's who speak \"perfect Singlish\". We can easily get this kind of environment at a fraction of the price if this is what we are after.
Of course, at the end of the day, once the kid goes to primary school, we may not be able to control the language environment that much anyway.
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