Altum

It’s very easy to have a wonderful marriage if everyone is happy. From my observations, whenever one party feels unfulfilled, then there is a chance of straying and a broken marriage is the result.


So in an ideal world, it’s never about one person giving and the rest taking. It’s all about being able to compromise and yielding to one another occasionally.

I have to give another perspective, so that we can all understand the other side. Just like I’ve learned from the wives’ perspective in this thread. In fact, after reading all these, I start to wonder how my wife actually feel. So far it seems fine to me, like I’ll reach home about 2, take a shower and go to bed and she will wake up and put her arms around me and go back to sleep.

Maybe she feels resentful, I hope not and better take steps to make sure it does not reach that stage.

cyberette:

Altum:

\"He is one person who has never strayed after being married. To think that his marriage now is a little strained because he does not get to do what he wants.\"

Thanks for your clarification, Altum. Yesterday, I'd wanted to ask you about the above sentence which sounded a bit dubious to me.

If this friend is \"one person who has never strayed after being married\", do you mean among your buddies, there are some who do or did?!

Oh my goodness...and infidelity in Health Centres? What kind of Health Centres are there in town that allow adulterous couples to transgress? Don't tell me husbands go to those sleazy spa joints along Geylang (very near to CBD!) and enjoy a quickie with those masseuses during long lunch hour?!

Please share more with us. Thank you so much!

When I say the marriage is strained, it does not mean it's on the rocks.
I'll try to illustrate this.

We usually finish work late around 8 plus, and if we arrange for a meet up, we are usually there about 9. So when we just start, sometimes this friend will get a msg in which his wife ask when he is coming home and if he is done for the day.

He will always shake his head and reply that he will leave in 5 minutes. Looks at us, drink up and say I've gotta go reluctantly. We salute him for that, doing this without fail even though he has been looking forward to have a break after a stressful day. I mean, his kids will be asleep by then as they are still in lower primary even if he goes home after work. He sends them to school in the morning before going to the office.

So the strain is on him. We can see he has no chance to unwind after working for like 10 to 12 hours. The rest of us figured that in the long run, he will feel resentful not being able to have some space.

So in order not to put a strain on the marriage, he takes on the strain himself. Is that healthy? Is that a committed husband? Does he deserve the suspicion of being unfaithful? :?

ammonite:

Thank you, Altum. I agree that the children's age is a significant factor.


Do hang around and share more on raising teenagers, esp fro dad's perspectives!

Well, raising teenagers are a totally different ball game in which I am finding myself challenged, which is why I revisited this forum to get some tips from more experienced ones, which is when I stumbled on this topic.

We've been trying to give them more and more leeway and freedom, which I believe is the correct way forward in this century. However, I'm still not too sure. That's another topic which I may update in a few years. Hopefully to share good experiences and not to say this is to be avoided.

cyberette:

Altum:


If you're drinking and playing cards with that same bunch of buddies for 12-25 years, how useful do you think they can be in helping you to climb the corporate ladder? Are they in senior positions and industries that are relevant to your career development? If they aren't, is their network wider than yours such that some \"gui ren\" (mentor) could accidentally drop by your drinking session from time to time to appraise your social and interpersonal skills?

I don't mean to offend, but from what you've been describing, it seems that it's the same old bunch of buddies (army? poly? uni?) that you socialise with every week. Is this strategic networking?

There's breakfast meetings and business lunches you can explore, for your information.

I don't know how old your children are, but if you and your buddies are between 45-55, your wives should be experiencing menopausal symptoms and all the more you should keep them company, after the children have gone to bed at 10pm. And if your children are still in lower primary due to late marriage, you should spend the critical 7-9pm golden period to bond with them and wife.

I can't help but think this is sheer escapism for many men in their late 40s to early 50s. You men want to reclaim your lost youth as you advance towards your mid-life. You miss your good old bachelor carefree days when no stay-at-home wives would nag at you or bother you with children's CA and tuition, complain to you about your maids or mother, or ask you which detergent to buy from NTUC. You want to feel young again, so you escape to the pubs to drink and play cards with your old buddies as often as possible.

Spending weekends with them isn't just enough. It'll only make your menopausal stay-at-home wives more insecure and moody on weekday nights. This is worse if you guys need to travel.

You advocate equality and advise wives to seek pleasures with their own buddies, but how many of your buddies' homemaker wives have any girlfriends who could leave behind their children to drink with them on a regular basis at night? Be realistic. They have lost their network and socialising instincts some 12-25 years ago as well as the motivation to dress to the nines, throw in the kitchen towel and cab to town to booze at night.

My advise is, take turns to organise such drinking sessions at your long-time buddies' homes every Friday evening. Invite the spouses and children over so that wives could talk to each other and children could play on their own. I assume after drinking with these buddies for 12-25 years, you should have met each other's other halves or at least attended each other's wedding!

Well just to clear the air and reply to everyone in general as well, we have not been drinking for 12 to 25 years. If one has read correctly, we have been parenting for the last 12 to 25 years. It was in the last few years that we started having some fun and drinks after work.

As for me, my 2 kids are in their teens and my wife and me have been focusing on them for the last 15 years and will still be. I'm glad they are all turning out well.

I happen to stumble on this post and this is the exact problem that one of my friends faced. It dawned on me that his kids are the youngest, being in primary school which is probably why he is facing this among all of us.

In reading this thread, I came across many instances where adultery is suspected. So I shared my experience to let everyone know that not all who stay out late are cheating on their spouse.

In fact, the people I know who cheated on their spouse all do it in the day, especially long lunch break without lunch but at health centres. It's only those that want to get caught keep late nights.

So I hope I've lent a different perspective of what could actually happen and I wish all of you well in your marriage.

lee_yl:

Altum,


I invited my hubby to read the post and gave his comment from a man's perspective.

He said socialising and networking do help in one's career but there is no need to socialise a few days a week until 2-3am each time. Who are you socialising with? The CEOs or CFOs of MNCs?

He said it is absurd that one needs to chill out with friends to escape from the mundane routine of life. Why not chill out at home with the wife or spend time bonding with the children? Instead of drinking with your friends so regularly, why not go out together for supper or drive around with your wife once or twice a week?

At the end of the day, all these all just blatant excuses to stay out, have fun and frankly, it does not bode well for the family. As the head of the household, you console yourself with talk of quality time and claims of being a good weekend dad, but in reality, do you think your wife and children not wish to have you around more often?

If you want to know how you and your friends' actions affect your wives, run through those earlier posts.

My hubby's conclusion, such behaviour is not normal and appear to be symptoms of mid-life crisis. The men can only find comfort in a group of like-minded folks to reminisce about the past glory and for that few hours, they are magically sheltered from harsh reality.

Ask yourself, at your death bed, who will miss you the most? Your wife and children or your drinking buddies. :razz:

Dear Li yi,

I do not make excuses right from the start as I say we do it for fun and we feel good about it and pointed out the fringe benefits of having a supportive network. Does it matter if the people who join us are ceo's or Cfo's? They are just people in my industry who have become friends over the years.

So while it is good that your husband agrees with you, it does not mean that everyone should abide by his code of conduct, nor you using it as a yardstick for what makes a good husband.

For your information, all of us have been married for 15 years, harmoniously for most of us since we do talk about wives and children in our conversations.

We have no need to reminise about the past because we are all enjoying the best stretch of our life at this point in time, both family and career.

Precisely, it should work both ways. Women should have their own group of friends.


Sometimes, spending quality time together is a lot better than just being home. Everybody needs some space, and base on what I see, it seems to be the basis for all happy and successful marriages.

Hope I have contributed a view from the other side of the problem. :celebrate:

sleepy:

Altum:

We merely meet after work to destress and laugh over drinks and card games.

Imagine we have spent the last 12 to 25 years (base on our group) working for the family and raising our kids. We are not getting younger and old friends have drifted apart due to everyone having the same routine of responsible family life. Yes, its about networking and more so, about having some time to chill from the mundane responsibilities of life.

Isn't it the exact same situation for the wives :scratchhead:
They spent the same amount of time working and raising kids too, if not more.

But with their husbands out relaxing, all the responsibilities weighed down on the wives. Not only men need to wind down and network. Women need to de-stress and talk to friends too.

Not restricted to drinking hobby. Any time consuming hobby (such as golf which takes 5 hours or more each time) that requires the spouse to shoulder all responsibility while the other half is out chilling, will cause resentment in the long run.

I believe a couple of times a month is still acceptable to most (My threshold is lower than Funz )

The key word is moderation

Yep, a couple of times a week is a reasonable compromise. We do have some joining us whenever they are granted a \"visa\" to have a night out.


My post was made to highlight that all these activities does not always mean that the husband is having an affair especially from my own personal experience.

We do drink responsibly, we finish our drinks and head for some food and tea before heading home just to ensure that we are sober, as effects wear off after a couple of hours. However, that adds another 2 hours to the night out and we end up reaching home about 2 am in the morning.

Our wives as Sahm, have the entire day to meet up with their friends while the kids are at school, they too have social life for themselves, so a compromise should be reached at least.

As for those lying and cheating husbands, this post is not for defending them.

Funz:

A couple of times a week out with the friends, that is acceptable. For me at least, cannot speak for all the ladies here.

I think most of the ladies here are upset because it is not once or twice a week but practically every night until the wee hours of the morning. And most of these ladies here have kids who are still rather young.

Not unfaithful, ok take your word for it. But not act irresponsibly? That is up for debate. If the guy has young kids and instead of spending time with his kids and wife, he chooses to drink his night away with his buddies. Drinks himself into a fuzzy high and gets behind the wheels to drive himself home. Reaches home at what 2am, 3am or 4am and falls into a drunken sleep. Not bothering that the wife could have been worried about his safety, that she could have done with some help handling the kids, that having someone to talk to after a long day is what she needs. And while the men are out drinking and unwinding, who cares for the kids? Not irresponsible? Mars and venus thinking here I guess. What if the tables were turned. The wife goes out everyday of the week?

I think when women got married, they think a life together with their husbands. Not just weekends together. But if guys want to diminish their roles in the family to just being a weekend husband or father, go ahead.

After reading some of the problems you wives faced, it seems similar to the problems one of my drinking buddies face.


His wife is always calling him to ensure he goes back after work.

There is a bunch of us who drinks on weekdays after work and our age range from 45 to 55. All responsible parents and committed husbands. Weekends are always reserved solely for family.

Only one of us is an alcoholic, the rest are all social drinkers. We will sit down for a few jugs of beer and some card games. The five of us are sometimes joined by some others who are not as regular.

I dare say none of us are unfaithful or irresponsible in our behaviour despite the places we drink having plenty of sweet young things. We merely meet after work to destress and laugh over drinks and card games.

Imagine we have spent the last 12 to 25 years (base on our group) working for the family and raising our kids. We are not getting younger and old friends have drifted apart due to everyone having the same routine of responsible family life. Yes, its about networking and more so, about having some time to chill from the mundane responsibilities of life.

The thing that we are concern about is our friend who always goes home reluctantly when his wife calls. He does so to please his wife, but at the expense of himself. He is one person who has never strayed after being married. To think that his marriage now is a little strained because he does not get to do what he wants.

So while you wives are unhappy about your husband having drinks with their friends, do thread with caution. Not all who does so are irresponsible or unfaithful. Do let your husbands out to do their own thing. While you may think its good to have one that works and come home after that everyday, think of the husband who resent that but do so just to please the wife.

It is only a matter of time before the resentment builds and all because of something as harmless as having drinks after work.

Not to mention good openings are never open to outsiders, always by word of mouth. The person who works and goes home will never progress to the maximum of his potential.

verykiasu2010:

PSLE is a national placement exam. like it or not, every kids go through it, unless u migrate or change the government to change the system




you are welcome to disagree and there is no obligation for me to reply u

Precisely, that is why the government is
trying to change the system, so that our
kids do not have go through a childhood
that devotes too much time to an academic
exercise. So that citizens do not have to
migrate to get out of this primitive system.

verykiasu2010:

it is a basic recognition that a pupil who
can only master 3 subjects compared
with another who can master 4, is not
good enough. don't ever use lowering weightage to tweak it. it is called cheating
or foul play. somebody who gave / fed the
info to the minister to talk about lowering
the weightage is going to get shot, political
test balloon or not. who wants to risk / lose political capital & goodwill .....

Not good enough for what?What is
good enough? Do we base a child's
abilities on the basis of 4 subjects?
What about the other talents where
they are not measured?

Have we become so obsessed with grades and
economics that we no longer care if our children
are having a decet childhood experiencing life
as it should be?