@bbbay wow triplets!

my younger one also completed JC2 last year and yes I cannot help but look forward to being able to plan for retirement. Working life is rather stressful these days - endless changes to cope with.

certainly, we should not be obsessed with university (or school) rankings. neither should rankings be discarded in the considerations.

For niche interests or value propositions, the considerations are different. This applies even at decisions at the schooling stage (e.g. certain special programmes, SOTA for Arts & Music etc). If a child is going to read say Dentistry in a not so well ranked university overseas, but earns a degree recognized by the singapore accreditation board, and wishes to practise in Singapore, i think most parents will support (if they are financially able to). so it there is a clear niche such as studying in Germany with plans to work for German firms in Singapore, or working in Austria/Germany in future, I think that’s fine.

However, if the child has no clear plans and wishes to keep job options in Singapore as wide as possible (not unusual among university-going students), then I guess my general take is that going to local universities or more widely known universities may open the most options. As slmkhoo explained, it’s also down to how the candidate is able to position the experience and his/her choice, and to contextualise it to the employer’s hiring needs.

@bbbay

It certainly is very interesting to read these accounts. Thanks for sharing.

For some of us who do not have deep enough pockets to support kids overseas purely for exposure or learning, inevitably I would be concerned if the kid is opting for a name that is unfamiliar among Singapore employers, if the child plans to return to Singapore to work. Of course, if the kid plans to work overseas in a location where the university is recognized, that’s different altogether.

In the same way for example, if a kid wishes to practice Medicine or Dentistry in Singapore, then it is important that he or she gets a qualification that is recognized by the Singapore bodies to practise here.

I think it is very difficult to give general advice on overseas studies. It is down to the individual circumstance, child’s interest, options, future plans, even character and values and maturity, and parents’ financial means - there is no cookie cutter solution.

@slmkhoo

Similarly, for my kids, I won’t say that we as parents were given a fait accompli situation. It’s probably a bit more dynamic and evolved naturally - kids expressing some interest in going overseas, then conferring with us on our views on what and where, the possible difficulties, hurdles and discomforts vs local universities, finances etc. The open conversations helped. So they kind of know what we generally favour/support, though they may not exactly agree with us. And as you say, the individual child and his or her maturity, character and mindset matter - we have assessed that our kids will be able to benefit from an overseas education should they choose to pursue one, and we too are willing to trust them and support them if they choose to go.

Eventually, the decision would come down to far more pragmatic matters, i.e. the universities they get a place in (applications are not always successful), scholarship options, local university offers etc.

@bbbay

If parents are paying, their input must surely matter lol

I think my kids are not that adventurous after all - they applied to the usual local universities and to the UK. They were too lazy to take SATs for the US, or to figure out what else is available in the non- English speaking countries.

Congrats to all the kids who got unbonded scholarships!

Perhaps I am a bit more conservative here, but because our local universities are so reputable these days, I think it will be hard for me to be fully supportive of my kids choosing to go overseas if they are able to secure a place locally, unless they are going to a highly reputable institution overseas as well……

@Mama_ambitious If a school teacher is negligent or incompetent, perhaps the way to voice this concern, is to the school?

My impression is that the schools offering IB In Singapore are generally producing very strong scores, hence by and large the teaching should be quite okay? For the occasional less than stellar teacher, there is tuition (haha Singapore style).

IO marking is moderated by IBO I think.

@bbbay

I’m not sure if ‘most’ is the right term - many in local universities opt not to go for semester exchanges too. Most will get to go out of Singapore at least once, but this could be 1 to 2 week programmes as well.

For those with kids studying in local universities, it. may be better not to prescribe or ‘target’ certain countries or universities. There is a huge list of exchange programme universities, but for each student, who is pursuing a particular degree, the options will depend on which partner universities there are available offering the relevant modules / courses that can be mapped back etc. Eventually the list of universities one can choose from may not be that many. It’s true that the top ranked universities overseas are likely the most sought after (I mean, who doesn’t want to go to Yale or whatever) and all students will roughly know whether they are amongst those who would be considered for these choicest exchange spots.

Regardless where one choose, there is learning value in student exchange programmes. In cases where universities freeze the GPA during exchange semester, grades don’t really count so the local university students really have a ball of a time overseas haha.

@bbbay

I feel that in our kids’ generation, even among the top JCs, the ‘desire’ to go overseas to study is not exactly strong. In part because our local universities are a very strong proposition. I don’t see many kids yearning to go overseas to experience life in the West or the East - there is no deep fascination or intrinsic interest - perhaps because there is so much we can watch and learn and know about foreign countries through media nowadays. Also, in the past, there was always a notion of learning from more developed countries - this doesn’t quite apply nowadays!

I feel its okay to be frank with our kids about what one is willing and able to provide in terms of university education. It’s not uncommon for parents to pay for local uni, and making it clear upfront that if they would like to study overseas, the family is not able to afford this path and that they would have to find their way (through scholarship, financial aid or whatever).

There are many parents who also fear that kids will pick up undesirable traits (haha, like some Western practices or values which parents may not embrace) if they study overseas, or perhaps grow distant from the family due to vastly different experiences. I can understand that point of view. A more independent and questioning person could come across as assertive or disrespectful or ungrateful to an Asian parent. Again, how a child evolves with experience is very individual.

On reflection, the travails of navigating landlords and tenancies, backpacking across countries in Europe, studying with people from vastly different backgrounds etc - I’m glad I experienced all of it. I’m not sure how far it made me a better person, or how it built me up, but no regrets, and it made for a more interesting life and memories.

Adding on my rant on overseas education - an overseas education, even to the top universities, is NOT a guarantee of career success - its not even a guarantee of a good first job placement.

Three or four years in university is quite some time - things can go awry, much as things can go well. It’s not a dissimilar story to getting into a top JC or top Sec School - it’s no guarantee of success. Generally, the conditions are there for you to excel and position yourself - how far each person goes and makes use of the various opportunities, is still down to the individual.

The segment of students/parents I am more empathetic towards is those who have tried hard but could not get into the local university for the course of their choice and have to look overseas. I can see why some parents who sell house / dig into retirement savings to see their child through say, Medicine overseas. - because they ahve all witnessed how hard the child has already tried, and the interest displayed, but for whatever reasons, did not manage to get a place in the local uni for a course or profession they are passionate about.