floppy\" post_id=\"2092290\" time=\"1671188125\" user_id=\"97579:

TBF this isn’t unique to Xinmin or to their Principle. Most schools, if not all, have the same requirements, ie need to score above x score in Chinese (good in second language) and must maintain certain overall grades for the rest of the subjects. This is not an “either / or” condition but an “and” condition.

Hi floppy,

Good day to you. Sorry to point out the sophistry in your statement. In Xinmin Primary, you need AL2 for Chinese and cumulative of 13pts or below in order at Primary 5 to continue to take Higher Chinese. However, this criteria is not the same for all Primary schools. I known of student who has no flair in Chinese and scored AL3 but the Principal in other primary school allows the student to continue to take Higher Chinese. So to be more exact, this is truly an issue of the current Principal at Xin Min Primary school.

In addition:
1. I think that the argument that one must do extremely well for other subjects to continue to take Higher Chinese is crap. I can agree if a child score 22 or 23 points and is in danger of dropping into normal academic but not when one kid did better than that.

2. do you understand the forcing of a kid who has flair in his mother tongue to drop the subject at a higher level leads to the lowering of self-esteem and self doubts? So much for MOE and the education minister statement to shift away from from over-emphasis on academic results and to support our child's holistic development.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2092498\" time=\"1671460229\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2092498 time=1671460229 user_id=53606]
Not leaning into either side, but I just wish to point out that with a total score of AL13, there’s no way a Xinmin student can enter any SAP secondary school. So why is there a need to fight for the right to take PSLE HCL?

https://schoolbell.sg/sap-secondary-schools/
(COP AL14 only if affiliated to SNGS and AL16 only if affiliated to MSHS).

Use the extra effort to brush up the 4 main subjects. If really love HCL, can ownself study using textbook and assessment books. But no benefit to sit for the exam.[/quote]

Hi Zac's Mum,

Good day to you.

Long time since I last drop by in here. For the benefit of all parents who thought that as long as do not go SAP school and that Higher Chinese has no other tangible benefits, let me share this:
(i) Students who take Higher Chinese at O-Level will get another 2 points deducted on overall L1R5;
(ii) In addition, students who took Higher Chinese can choose not to continue with their mother tongue at A Level examination and just focused on their other subjects.

Saying that, the above tangible benefits is besides the point albeit I know of parents who forced their kids to take higher chinese to try to obtain these benefits at O Level and A level and engaged chinese tutors outside to \"train\" their kids to do well in chinese. The essence is this, for kids who are talented/apt in their Higher Chinese, this does not necessary mean they will do extremely well in one major exam grading. Just like kids who scored AL1 or AL 2 for normal Chinese does not mean necessarily mean they are apt in Advanced/Higher Chinese. It is unfair to just condemn a kid who is passionate in Higher Chinese to a death sentence at Primary 6.

My kid went on to Secondary 1 without being eligible to do Higher Chinese as he did not take Higher Chinese during PSLE due to our dear principal's adamant stand in Xin Min Primary School. It is only through appeal and final Secondary 1 examination results that his Secondary Chinese HOD offered him Higher Chinese at end of Secondary 1. He has missed 1 whole year of opportunity to learn more during his Secondary 1. Nevertheless, his Higher Chinese WA1 and WA2 in Secondary 2 is currently ranked among the top 3 in his class per his form teacher.

Summarising, I thought that the attitude and principles of Xin Min Primary School in terms of education is extremely disappointing. If you folks still insist that grades is everything to determine a kid's future direction and passion, then I got nothing to say. On hind sight, I regretted not digging in and challenging the Principal against her personal stand and stubborn viewpoints.

@bbbay said in Xinmin Primary:

edwardtay79\" post_id=\"2134949\" time=\"1718067816\" user_id=\"134682:

Hi Zac's Mum,

Good day to you.

Long time since I last drop by in here. For the benefit of all parents who thought that as long as do not go SAP school and that Higher Chinese has no other tangible benefits, let me share this:
(i) Students who take Higher Chinese at O-Level will get another 2 points deducted on overall L1R5;
(ii) In addition, students who took Higher Chinese can choose not to continue with their mother tongue at A Level examination and just focused on their other subjects.

Saying that, the above tangible benefits is besides the point albeit I know of parents who forced their kids to take higher chinese to try to obtain these benefits at O Level and A level and engaged chinese tutors outside to \"train\" their kids to do well in chinese. The essence is this, for kids who are talented/apt in their Higher Chinese, this does not necessary mean they will do extremely well in one major exam grading. Just like kids who scored AL1 or AL 2 for normal Chinese does not mean necessarily mean they are apt in Advanced/Higher Chinese. It is unfair to just condemn a kid who is passionate in Higher Chinese to a death sentence at Primary 6.

My kid went on to Secondary 1 without being eligible to do Higher Chinese as he did not take Higher Chinese during PSLE due to our dear principal's adamant stand in Xin Min Primary School. It is only through appeal and final Secondary 1 examination results that his Secondary Chinese HOD offered him Higher Chinese at end of Secondary 1. He has missed 1 whole year of opportunity to learn more during his Secondary 1. Nevertheless, his Higher Chinese WA1 and WA2 in Secondary 2 is currently ranked among the top 3 in his class per his form teacher.

Summarising, I thought that the attitude and principles of Xin Min Primary School in terms of education is extremely disappointing. If you folks still insist that grades is everything to determine a kid's future direction and passion, then I got nothing to say. On hind sight, I regretted not digging in and challenging the Principal against her personal stand and stubborn viewpoints.

Educators make decisions on scale for corhort size. It’s reasonable for them to base on statistics to guide their decisions. If a child is struggling with 普华 and/or other subjects during primary school, it is reasonable for school to recommend dropping 高华, to focus energy on 普华/ core subjects instead. It is like cannot handle 10 chapters, better focus energy on only 8 chapters. But I don’t think the door to 高华is closed in Sec. School for those not given the chance to attempt it during PSLE. If can demonstrate the ability to handle 高华 later in Sec. School, I am sure Sec. School will be willing to consider that, just like in your case?

Hi bbbay,
We have to agree to disagree. It is totally unreasonable to base on some statistics to make a decision. I am talking about a child doing well with Normal Chinese and also Higher Chinese but forced to drop Higher Chinese as he is so called not doing well with other subjects by the Principal of Xinmin Primary School. This is a dinosaur mindset by a lot of old school principals and parents who just focus on academics and sacrificing a child’s passion for Chinese so that the time can be spent on other subjects…totally illogical and ancient mindset.

Please refer back to what Mr Lawrence Wong had spoken on the recent National Day Rally about the importance of Higher Chinese. Principal with dinosaur mindset should be asked to retire early so that young children can pursue their subject of interest without being forced to drop them like what had happened in Xin Min Primary School.

@bbbay
Hi Mate, I think that the Principal of Xin Min Primary School is following the policy blindly then if there is even such a policy in the first place that directly contradicts with what MOE and the Minister of Education is trying to achieve.

We have already move away from streaming students into EM1 to EM3 classes and to “subject banding”. No student is good in all subjects. Hence I do not understand why a student such as my boy who is proficient in higher Chinese is made to drop higher Chinese just because he did not do too well for English, Maths and Science at the young age of 11 years old at end of Primary 5. So personally for me, is this not an issue with the Principal?

Also for current 2024, is the Principal still adopting such draconian measure and forcing students who are good in higher Chinese to drop them due to being weaker in other subjects? If weak in other subjects, should it not be the school working harder to help students in those subjects excel instead of asking them to drop higher Chinese which is totally irrelevant?

@bbbay
Hi Mate, I think that the Principal of Xin Min Primary School is following the policy blindly then if there is even such a policy in the first place that directly contradicts with what MOE and the Minister of Education is trying to achieve.

We have already move away from streaming students into EM1 to EM3 classes and to “subject banding”. No student is good in all subjects. Hence I do not understand why a student such as my boy who is proficient in higher Chinese is made to drop higher Chinese just because he did not do too well for English, Maths and Science at the young age of 11 years old at end of Primary 5. So personally for me, is this not an issue with the Principal?

Also for current 2024, is the Principal still adopting such draconian measure and forcing students who are good in higher Chinese to drop them due to being weaker in other subjects? If weak in other subjects, should it not be the school working harder to help students in those subjects excel instead of asking them to drop higher Chinese which is totally irrelevant?

@bbbay said in Xinmin Primary:

edwardtay79\" post_id=\"2134949\" time=\"1718067816\" user_id=\"134682:

Hi Zac's Mum,

Good day to you.

Long time since I last drop by in here. For the benefit of all parents who thought that as long as do not go SAP school and that Higher Chinese has no other tangible benefits, let me share this:
(i) Students who take Higher Chinese at O-Level will get another 2 points deducted on overall L1R5;
(ii) In addition, students who took Higher Chinese can choose not to continue with their mother tongue at A Level examination and just focused on their other subjects.

Saying that, the above tangible benefits is besides the point albeit I know of parents who forced their kids to take higher chinese to try to obtain these benefits at O Level and A level and engaged chinese tutors outside to \"train\" their kids to do well in chinese. The essence is this, for kids who are talented/apt in their Higher Chinese, this does not necessary mean they will do extremely well in one major exam grading. Just like kids who scored AL1 or AL 2 for normal Chinese does not mean necessarily mean they are apt in Advanced/Higher Chinese. It is unfair to just condemn a kid who is passionate in Higher Chinese to a death sentence at Primary 6.

My kid went on to Secondary 1 without being eligible to do Higher Chinese as he did not take Higher Chinese during PSLE due to our dear principal's adamant stand in Xin Min Primary School. It is only through appeal and final Secondary 1 examination results that his Secondary Chinese HOD offered him Higher Chinese at end of Secondary 1. He has missed 1 whole year of opportunity to learn more during his Secondary 1. Nevertheless, his Higher Chinese WA1 and WA2 in Secondary 2 is currently ranked among the top 3 in his class per his form teacher.

Summarising, I thought that the attitude and principles of Xin Min Primary School in terms of education is extremely disappointing. If you folks still insist that grades is everything to determine a kid's future direction and passion, then I got nothing to say. On hind sight, I regretted not digging in and challenging the Principal against her personal stand and stubborn viewpoints.

Educators make decisions on scale for corhort size. It’s reasonable for them to base on statistics to guide their decisions. If a child is struggling with 普华 and/or other subjects during primary school, it is reasonable for school to recommend dropping 高华, to focus energy on 普华/ core subjects instead. It is like cannot handle 10 chapters, better focus energy on only 8 chapters. But I don’t think the door to 高华is closed in Sec. School for those not given the chance to attempt it during PSLE. If can demonstrate the ability to handle 高华 later in Sec. School, I am sure Sec. School will be willing to consider that, just like in your case?

Hi bbbay,
We have to agree to disagree. It is totally unreasonable to base on some statistics to make a decision. I am talking about a child doing well with Normal Chinese and also Higher Chinese but forced to drop Higher Chinese as he is so called not doing well with other subjects by the Principal of Xinmin Primary School. This is a dinosaur mindset by a lot of old school principals and parents who just focus on academics and sacrificing a child’s passion for Chinese so that the time can be spent on other subjects…totally illogical and ancient mindset.

Please refer back to what Mr Lawrence Wong had spoken on the recent National Day Rally about the importance of Higher Chinese. Principal with dinosaur mindset should be asked to retire early so that young children can pursue their subject of interest without being forced to drop them like what had happened in Xin Min Primary School.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2092498\" time=\"1671460229\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2092498 time=1671460229 user_id=53606]
Not leaning into either side, but I just wish to point out that with a total score of AL13, there’s no way a Xinmin student can enter any SAP secondary school. So why is there a need to fight for the right to take PSLE HCL?

https://schoolbell.sg/sap-secondary-schools/
(COP AL14 only if affiliated to SNGS and AL16 only if affiliated to MSHS).

Use the extra effort to brush up the 4 main subjects. If really love HCL, can ownself study using textbook and assessment books. But no benefit to sit for the exam.[/quote]

Hi Zac's Mum,

Good day to you.

Long time since I last drop by in here. For the benefit of all parents who thought that as long as do not go SAP school and that Higher Chinese has no other tangible benefits, let me share this:
(i) Students who take Higher Chinese at O-Level will get another 2 points deducted on overall L1R5;
(ii) In addition, students who took Higher Chinese can choose not to continue with their mother tongue at A Level examination and just focused on their other subjects.

Saying that, the above tangible benefits is besides the point albeit I know of parents who forced their kids to take higher chinese to try to obtain these benefits at O Level and A level and engaged chinese tutors outside to \"train\" their kids to do well in chinese. The essence is this, for kids who are talented/apt in their Higher Chinese, this does not necessary mean they will do extremely well in one major exam grading. Just like kids who scored AL1 or AL 2 for normal Chinese does not mean necessarily mean they are apt in Advanced/Higher Chinese. It is unfair to just condemn a kid who is passionate in Higher Chinese to a death sentence at Primary 6.

My kid went on to Secondary 1 without being eligible to do Higher Chinese as he did not take Higher Chinese during PSLE due to our dear principal's adamant stand in Xin Min Primary School. It is only through appeal and final Secondary 1 examination results that his Secondary Chinese HOD offered him Higher Chinese at end of Secondary 1. He has missed 1 whole year of opportunity to learn more during his Secondary 1. Nevertheless, his Higher Chinese WA1 and WA2 in Secondary 2 is currently ranked among the top 3 in his class per his form teacher.

Summarising, I thought that the attitude and principles of Xin Min Primary School in terms of education is extremely disappointing. If you folks still insist that grades is everything to determine a kid's future direction and passion, then I got nothing to say. On hind sight, I regretted not digging in and challenging the Principal against her personal stand and stubborn viewpoints.

floppy\" post_id=\"2092290\" time=\"1671188125\" user_id=\"97579:

TBF this isn’t unique to Xinmin or to their Principle. Most schools, if not all, have the same requirements, ie need to score above x score in Chinese (good in second language) and must maintain certain overall grades for the rest of the subjects. This is not an “either / or” condition but an “and” condition.

Hi floppy,

Good day to you. Sorry to point out the sophistry in your statement. In Xinmin Primary, you need AL2 for Chinese and cumulative of 13pts or below in order at Primary 5 to continue to take Higher Chinese. However, this criteria is not the same for all Primary schools. I known of student who has no flair in Chinese and scored AL3 but the Principal in other primary school allows the student to continue to take Higher Chinese. So to be more exact, this is truly an issue of the current Principal at Xin Min Primary school.

In addition:
1. I think that the argument that one must do extremely well for other subjects to continue to take Higher Chinese is crap. I can agree if a child score 22 or 23 points and is in danger of dropping into normal academic but not when one kid did better than that.

2. do you understand the forcing of a kid who has flair in his mother tongue to drop the subject at a higher level leads to the lowering of self-esteem and self doubts? So much for MOE and the education minister statement to shift away from from over-emphasis on academic results and to support our child's holistic development.

For parents who want to send their kids to Xinmin Primary School, just be aware of the statistics. Based on 2022 PSLE results, National average for students making it into Express stream in Secondary school is 68.4% (you can google this). However, Xinmin Primary school has only 60.1% well below the national average as (aforesaid mentioned) by a whopping <8.3%>.


Basically, out of every 10 students in its P6 cohort, 4 students will get sent to Normal/Normal Technical stream and only 6 make it to Express Stream (4 years programme) in Secondary School.

Other statistics for 2022 PSLE results:
1.English Language- only 51.9% scored AL1 to AL5. Meaning the rest scored 64 or below marks;
2. Mathematics- only 50.8% scored AL1 to AL5. Meaning almost half of cohort scored 64 or below marks;
3. Science- only 57.7% scored AL1 to AL5.

Parents whose kids are taking higher Chinese also better take note to pay more attention to your kid’s study while in P4 and P5. Your child will be made by the Principal to drop his Higher Chinese if he/she do not do well in English, Maths and Science albeit good in 2nd Language. My personal take is that my principles and the Principal’s principles on education are not aligned. Not sure about you all- just have to watch out to avoid being shocked by such turn of event.