Giving up a job to raise kids doesn’t guarantee good outcomes. In fact, with some family support and efficient use of external help available, a parent’s exposure to the outside world in a professional capacity can even help the child go further because one can communicate and engage with the kids at a higher level.


I can see a lot of parents are under a lot of stress, most of it self inflicted. If we always focus on the academics rather than the relationship with our child, we will lose many bonding and teaching moments. We play a lot with our kids when they are young. Through play, we teach them to do their best. This means before the game or even exams, we put in our best resources, prepare our ammunitions, and do our best when the “game” starts.
Putting up a strong fight doesn’t mean one must win. As long as the child (and ourselves) understands that, there is no stress. In fact one might even have fun in the process. The focus should really be on building character and resilience. Once the child masters that, sooner or later the child can maximise their potential in every exam or challenge.

As a parent with kids in IP schools, I do see the benefits of the system. However, I do not agree getting into IP is a sure way (and is surely not the only way) to success and not getting into one won’t mean one is doomed for life too. Take it easy, parents. There are many pathways. If we adults put labels and brands on schools, we are creating the exact toxic environment that we do not want our kids to grow up in.

:siam:

For those who do not understand what the IP schools have to offer for their 6 year programme, it is recommended to understand more about them via the open houses before having any pre conceived notions. One child doing well in a particular stream or pathway doesn’t mean the same for others. Each IP schools indeed have their own programme which stretches the students in breadth or in depth and it is critical that only suitable students are admitted. Not just in academics because one will also notice some of these IP schools do well for their non-academic achievements too. (Not to mean O level schools don’t do well in their non-academics but iykyk).


Since this is a psle 2023 chat, parents are naturally concerned about which school / stream is suitable for their child - when there is an option to choose. And come results day when that option to choose is available - I personally believe u can consider to let your child take some risks and try the “best” available option rather than going with what’s “comfortable”- if the child is ready for it. I always say a certain pathway is a good option only if that selection is suitable for your child at that point in time and for that next phase of their lives. At this next phase where peer influence take centre stage compared to primary school, it is important for them to find peers who can stimulate their thinking and grow with them, maybe finding new interest and hobbies together. They must also be prepared to have a growth mindset to learn new things. Sometimes the way we educate our children will also affect how they handle challenges too. If the child is more suitable for a more structured environment and exam regime because their results have been pumped up by external tuition or parent guidance at home then by all means let them continue with the O levels if it works better for them, and let this next exam decide their next path. There should be no shame (or pride) whichever school/stream our children go to because learning is a lifelong journey, and indeed life is not only about academic studies.

To add on to the conversation around that most talked about IP school, the boys would have finished all their academic studies by mid year and will pick their GAP semester courses which stretches them in breadth before they join year5 students in jc. So I can imagine maybe some are still in lalaland when they have to hit the books again in jc. :evil:

Anyway sharing this interesting article on parenting tip.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/08/dad-of-18-year-old-google-engineer-shares-his-top-parenting-rule.html

Once the offer is given to your child, maybe u should cancel out the noises and stop worrying about your child’s psle score vs the AL required to enter the school. Indeed in secondary school, the psle score doesn’t matter anymore. Everyone starts with a clean slate. At this new starting line, what matters is the student’s attitude towards learning, and how determined your child is to finish this race. I have seen students of different batches, with varying scores, all coping ok over the years. The selection panel puts in effort to only pick the ones whom they think can make it for the academic rigors. Trust in the process. But do also have a good chat with your child to make sure both parent and child are picking the school for the right reasons, and not because of its brand name. I always tell my children that a dsa confirmed offer is a special pass for u to come into the school, but it doesn’t guarantee graduation from the school. Every student, whether coming in by dsa or psle score, needs to work hard towards their graduation and towards the O/A level score they want to achieve. So pick the school that u think can bring out the best in your child. Your child must have done something right in the specific dsa dormain to have received a CO/WL, so do encourage them to use that same grit and determination on this new academic journey in the new school. All the best. :rahrah:

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2116167\" time=\"1691912966\" user_id=\"3:

Just like not every parent is the same, not every school is the same. If every school is the same there will be no need for balloting during P1 registration for particular schools EVERY year.

While it is true that most teachers have little say where they get posted to, a school is a combination of different administrators, teachers, students, parents... Everything everyone does will have some impact on the well being of the school. Just like Qifa Primary. In 2009, some kid from Qifa was the top PSLE scorer. Immediately, from 2010 onwards, the school is ALWAYS filled up by the end Phase 2C, and rarely, Phase 2CS. Prior to 2010, it never had to ballot at all.

So, it's difficult to say that every school is the same, because we know that is not true. What we can say though, is that MOE has given pretty much the same for all schools, or at least the minimum given by MOE to any primary school is still pretty high. So at the minimum, every school is a good school.

A lot of people underestimate the role parents play in the education landscape. In every school, the “parent support group” synergy can be a powerful source of strength for further improvements.

A school with a better track record attracts parents who want the same for their children. Higher expectations will also lead to higher demands on the school teachers. In some schools, it is not uncommon for parents to voice their concerns to the school leaders, even to the ministry if teachers or exam prep are not up to expectations. A strong collective voice can be a major force in their quest for a better learning environment for their children. Interested parents might also be more likely to provide enrichment classes (be it paid tuition or taught by parents at home). This raises the bar for peers in the same school/class and increases the intensity (or pressure) of academic progress.

So I say, all primary schools are not the same, because their difference (whether real or perceived) will attract different kind of parents.

But parents, let’s not forget that, not all children are born the same. Especially at primary school, they don’t learn the same way and u likely won’t see the same results at the same time for all of them (some late bloomers or some might not bloom the way u want). Putting them in a pressure cooker too early might take away the joy of learning. Just pick the one most convenient for daily commute and is reasonably well run, because u and your child will thank u for this decision every morning. A well rested child will learn better in any school he/she goes to. :siam:

From what I have seen in recent years, students who get in top schools via non-academic dsa often do not get enough credit for being strong in BOTH their academic results and their talent dormains. Gone are the days when only medals or ranking matter. The schools’ selection panel needs to not only be accountable to their own school leaders for the CO+WL given, but also to the ministry that they all report to. Of course the top schools will always get a bigger pool of applicants and they can choose the best among them, and since they have a bigger pool of talents to pick from, they pick talented candidates who give the schools less problems in their academics.


For those who had outdated information about past lax dsa requirements and think schools only want the child’s talent but don’t care about their academics, or felt disgruntled because someone else’s kid was selected but not yours - fret not. The selection committee might be doing u and your child a favor by not giving the spot to candidates whom they think can’t cope with the academic rigors + can’t contribute for the talent dormain. Interestingly, more often than not, the cohort that comes in via psle score into these top schools are usually quite multi talented too, thus no lack of talent pool to be honest.

For IP schools with dual track ie o levels, the schools are able to move the students to a different track if deem unsuitable midway. One straightforward way to assess if a “pure” IP school has been effective in their dsa selection - check if there is a need for them to open any o level class in recent years. Granted those who went in by psle score might not make it through too but it gives u an idea of how the school supports their students. Do your own research by asking the right questions.

For those who have the opportunity to progress through the various stages of selection tests or trials/auditions/interviews, hope u and your child have a better idea now on which is a better fit for your child. Personally after seeing so many real life examples of dsa success and failure stories, I can only conclude that the real winners in this dsa “game” are the parents who found the right fit for their child - the school which is able to bring out the best in their child for the next 4-6 years. Good luck. :rahrah:

The ministry’s published statement has said as much - if u can reach the final destination (ie correct answer), they won’t question how u got there (eg whether u crawled or u walked the journey) and u will get your full marks as having accomplished the “task”. What if u force them for the “how”, because u used a different method learned elsewhere but didn’t reach the final destination? Can u request for them to award marks for the distance u covered by walking or maybe running? :?


If the answer is yes, then the floodgates will be opened. We will soon see eager parents with time and resources teaching or sending their children to tuition centers offering algebra classes (not saying which method is better or easier). So what then should the schools do? Do they now teach algebra as well? If they don’t, the ones with lesser resources will be disadvantaged… I always wonder if they fast forward and teach algebra in primary school, will the future cohorts end up with having to do A math in S1 or S2? Why crawl when u can run to your destination? :evil: are we ready for this “fast-track”? :heresmyfish:

Is the intention then to force them to say no? :siam:

To ensure a fair test, the “skill” (or method) that is being taught is the one they are testing - to find out if a group of students are responding well to the education provided. That’s why marks are given for the “skill” they have learned, no matter how far they have gone using the methods taught (in their workings). But I thought they are also flexible enough to award full marks to those who can master algebra well (ie must be correct final answer).

Good luck for your query.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2101603\" time=\"1679111828\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2101603 time=1679111828 user_id=53606]
I know. But would everybody agree that a 4-day snapshot at 11-12 years old is indicative of the child’s next 6 years’ ability? Some kids mature earlier, some later.[/quote]

I am one parent who agrees that the 4-day snapshot is not a full indication of his/her abilities, and I am sure many parents on and offline agrees with me, even if we are the silent majority. That’s why there is no need to rush, and no need to judge the kids so early. Take each examination as a sorting exercise. The opening of various pathways is an indication of the ministry’s recognition that some kids will bloom later, and thus new channels are now opened for them to move up. Sometimes we just need to ignore the loudspeakers - they may sound louder but not necessarily right - so ignoring them can help parents achieve better mental health and can focus on supporting our children on their journey. :boogie:

lee_yl\" post_id=\"2101596\" time=\"1679108207\" user_id=\"17023:

If you kids qualified for IP but you influenced them to go O level schools, isn’t that a form of 勉强 as well?

This is not very different from “influencing” their kids to good/top schools. In both cases, parents think that they know what is best for their kids.

By the way, O level has its own stress and not as chilllax as claimed.

Looks like the parent made the right choice to “influence” the child to do o levels because the child still end up in the IPJC. Most importantly, the child learned to make a decision, and having the courage to take up the challenge. Let’s learn to cheer for other parents.

Liew Nga Wing\" post_id=\"2100942\" time=\"1678749315\" user_id=\"195250:[quote=\"Liew Nga Wing\" post_id=2100942 time=1678749315 user_id=195250]
Were those boys in this \"school\" still had to achieve a AL 22 or below (affiliated) in PSLE in order to enrol into the Express stream of the same school? It is not a 100% \"through train\" for all boys in this school.[/quote]

Why should we limit ourselves and only look at express? A truly through-train school should cater to many different abilities - to bring out the best in each and every student while keeping a place even for the late-bloomers. As long as the student gets AL28 and below, they will get to stay on in the ACS family, and work their way up from G1 to G2 and G3 when the student is ready. Maybe we should have more schools like that.

IF parents can get past the labels that comes with being an IP or G1/2/3 student, any kind of sorting (eg psle) is merely used to help place the students in a group/school which is appropriate for their ability. There shouldn’t be any stress if parents can see it that way. :siam:

Parents, did u realize we actually do already have a “school” that is a “through-train” system? This “school” allows one to enter at P1 based on alumni or distance just like any other primary schools. This “school” allows one to stay in the “school” from P1 to S4, as long as u want to stay on (covers most of the AL ranges for IP, G1,2,3). Their students are awarded 2 (loyalty) bonus points if they choose to stay on to do A levels in JC, and there is even an IB option, if one can make it. The ones who are identified as gifted or higher ability goes on to a class appropriate for their abilities at P6, S2 or S4, while the rest of the cohort will now follow the new “subject based banding” arrangement. Recently this “school” has even decided to move to a new neighborhood in the west, admitting girls as well and alas! they are also going to have a special education segment that caters to the ones who needs it. Isn’t this becoming the through-train that one is looking for - where every boy (and hopefully girls too in the future) has a place from P1 to S4?


I am sure everyone knows which “school” I am talking about. I have to state categorically that I have no relationship with it in any way, but I do have friends who have children in the “school”. I recall how different parents from the same school react differently come psle year - one friend with a child in it was so nervous because they didn’t want the child to end up in the campus which admits students with “varying abilities” vs the one which is “better”. Another friend was super cool during psle because the parent knows the child will stay on this “through-train” whichever way psle results turn out to be. As u can see from this example - both are in the same “through-train school” but different parents feel the pressure differently.

The idea of sorting students is necessary because we want them to learn at a pace that is appropriate for them. Sort them early we end up with super-charged parents who are eager to give their children a good head-start and sometimes it becomes a game of who has more resources to get them there first. Sort them late and we end up with kids who might miss the chance to be selected to be groomed appropriately, or the kid loses interest. If only we put our child’s learning experience first, then we won’t worry about the labels that come with the sorting. Exams need not be stressful if parents take each exam as an opportunity for your child to be tested on what they have learned, to find out what are their strengths and weaknesses, and to encourage the child to try their best if they so decide to set a target they want to achieve.

The problem comes only when there is a certain expectation for the child to be at a certain level of competency, and anything “lesser” is labeled as negative, with the misguided belief that there is only one pathway to “success”. Teaching our children to handle exams with the correct mindset also helps to build resilience, and allowing them to make mistakes when they are younger is always better than later in life. We have to remind ourselves that removing stones in their path won’t make their paths smoother. Let’s learn to shake off the labels in our mind, and allow our children to blossom when they are ready.

:siam:

Reading what this writer wrote about the education/parenting scene. Quoting it here: Singapore is at a juncture when the internal contradictions of its hyper-competitive system are becoming apparent, causing much angst, from the low- to middle- to high-income residents. They worry if they can attain the essentials of modern life – a home, job, school for their children and caregiving for frail family members. Those who are wealthy, still worry – about access to good schools and whether their children can do as well in a game they themselves excelled in. (https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/singapore-dream-turned-sour-how-upgrading-and-a-culture-of-getting-ahead-became-corrosive)


Those of us with the means, we have to admit there is some kind of headstart that we can give our children, if we want. But if overdone, everyone’s (parents I mean us too) mental health suffers and the children burn out early. I like how the ministry re-shuffles how the “game” is played. When the same game is played over and over again (with the same rules), the players (parents+students) get better at gaming it. Because it becomes a matter of who knew the game better, who played it safe, who drilled more and thus get better outcomes - no room for creativity after some point!

The recent news is not unexpected because all around us we can hear the noises getting louder - on reducing stress for the students, less emphasis on academics and more focus on other skills for the new future - glad someone is listening! Parents who can see the big picture knows - the world is changing and sg also need to adjust ourselves. No doubt rp70 means a tighter range of results and maybe more students on equal footing. So how do we differentiate ourselves?

If I am a school or a teacher in a school, I will have to think about how else I can “push” my students to do better, now that there are less check points (eg mid year exams) to “frighten” parents/students enough for them to buck up or get additional help like external or home tuition outside of school. Or how to pivot in an era of “life beyond grades”. We have to admit sometimes it becomes a matter of studying for the sake of good grades for a compulsory subject in an exam, and not studying to learn new knowledge. I will have to think about how I can better engage my students to do more self directed learning so that my job can be easier. How to make them want to learn, instead of waiting for that result slip or that “compulsory subject” excuse to motivate them?

If I am a parent or a student, well I definitely have to recognize the focus is shifting. Those who sees the cup half empty will always feel the stress no matter what kind of games they are playing, or how the rules change. The “game” is slowly changing to be no longer a race of how many correct answers one can give (leave that to ChatGPT) but the other attributes that a robot/machine don’t have (yet). We have to prepare ourselves for jobs that do not even exist now, and the ones who do well will be the ones who dare to take up a new challenge. Indeed changing mindsets is important - but more importantly, moulding a mindset that is always open to ideas and changes! That’s the lifelong skill they need.

By the way if I am on the selection panel and if a student showcases 变脸, breathe fire or swallow swords, I won’t be impressed. I will be wondering why showcase such an outdated talent that no one is interested in now, and on top of it it’s detrimental to one’s physical health! My point is - no matter what tricks u have up your sleeves, stay relevant! :siam: