thsheng99:We will see good teachers flocking to HCI and other independent/mission/ clan schools soon then
stetan:If you have never seen the JD, how can you argue that any task given by MOE is not in the JD? If you have, why don't you share it?Every job has a JD. Even the President. When you cannot access the JD does not mean there is none.limlim:
If there are no clearly defined JD in the first place, there is no justification for asking for additional pay to be compliance with clean wage policy. ?limlim:But you are now stating that the teachers need to do all these additional stuff, even though you said they should not do it.I say teacher should not be force to do other tasks. But that is my opinion only. What I am telling you is your argument for additional pay doesn't stand. I say teachers should be not force to do those task doesn't mean MOE has no right to ask them to do those task. get it??
Don't you think you are changing your stand depending on where the wind blows ?limlim:What I am telling you is do not be so gullible and take everything at face value on the website because they are only describing at high overview the job role and can be extrapolated into many other activities like washing backsides. This is the point I am trying to make. Do you understand ?Do you have a son? you can ask your son to wash your backside when he serves NS. lol. You want to debate in this language?
Nursing injured soldiers and constructing shelters are all reasonable tasks. Teacher giving extra coaching and taking students on field trips are all reasonable tasks. Your example are ridiculous, unreasonable tasks. Are you mature enough to debate in a matured way? What is reasonable and what is not, surely your are old enough to know?
floppy:More like the difference between $10 & $135..
All for $10. Worth it meh?
:siam:
Estéema:I do not dispute that there may be isolated or exception cases. However, wouldn't it be more constructive to ask for the school or MOE to create a channel for teachers to request for concessions? surely the examples you quoted are situations warranting some concessions. Parking charges could be waived or adsorbed on a case-by-case basis, but cannot be a buffet for all.
I don't think any of us can target in this manner nor can we 一竹杆打整船人. In DC's sch, one very dedicated teacher hv no choice to drive as his child has been afflicted with dystrophy. Day in day out & year in year out, u'll see him arrive in sch by 7am, unload a wheelchair, carry his child to his wheelchair & leave him in the assembly hall whilst he gets on with his duty as a discipline master. You can't say he's rich/wealthy. He just need to drive to work with his child & wheelchair. It's a financial burden but he's keeping chin up to serve his son & the sch without partiality.
Ano is the Operations Manager, who is ano real dedicated fellow transferred fr ano neighborhood sch, having seen him used his personal vehicle (not 'company' benefit) to run for emergency as well as urgent errands before VIPS' arrivals, etc just to name a few. I'm sure there are many KSP parents who can share more examples.
You might be right, as prices of cars goes north, it may eradicate ownerships. That's going to be tough for teachers who need to juggle teaching & attending meetings or courses, whilst old cars still in operation or affordable for some time. But arguing on affordability & subsiding the wealthy shld not be drawn in this topic.
The main crux of my point why I wld let the matter rest is this carpark thing has been there for time in memorial. Just as we wldnt & cldnt evict a squatter who had occupied a property for beyond 20 years, we shld not yank out the carpet on others to achieve PSD (some scholars out to earn recognition for 'spotting' discrepancies) lofty exercise & cause disruption & harm whether physical, or emotional or otherwise.
My only point is not whether we are supporting those haves, but that it has been part of school compound & has been used for staff. Don't make it commercial just bcoz of following some rules of 'clean wage' bcoz there is policy & there is the human heart. One shld not blindly use the rule w/o exercising yr heartbeat. We can argue till the cow comes home, we'll never come to fruition of a perfect conclusion - all of us have diff rates of heartbeat; some slow & steady, some real furious & fast yet others reckless in heading for rules & policies to fix that perfect ideal of 'clean wage'.
Further, if PSD/MOE or ah-gong says no more argument & keep quiet all of us, the plan to charge still goes on, then there shld be proper closure & it must be specifically made known compensatory plan to relieve that portion that has been taken out - that wld incl tpt reimbursements for trips taken whethervto send a child to hospital or meetings & trainings. I can assure you these claims will work out to hefty sum for tax payers scrutiny for what the Op Mgr has been so unconsciously not minding his petrol & depleting condition of his car, now will be on a per piecemeal cost for every incidentals that the busy HODs/VPs/P will hv to add into their specified JD.
Personally, I think our world is never going to be perfect. You twitch one side, things going to find its way to compensate in ano area & unexpectedly u hv to face & accept consequences. There's always cause & effect. Not everything can be an exact science nor can empathy be exactly computed. So be it.
Not many civil service jobs gets its inherent 'benefits'. PSD may jump on army & schools with free parking, but imagine if u're in civil service on regular work place in CBD area (too expensive to park even if can afford car) comparing with teachers who hv to accept part of their JD incl being assigned to any sch irrespective of residence in east & work in west a few years & transfer to North few years down the road - not regular in work location.
Anyway, we can keep going round the bend, but each are just showing how accommodative & understanding/empathetic we can be to others. I don't drive, nor am I a teacher, but it takes one to look at the entirety of matter to learn to work your heart and mind for a more gracious & inclusive society. When a society changes & calculates everything, then the machine of the brain works very hard, but the heart is surpassed.
OT : A elderly colleague once share how upset he was when his wife wanted to shop at Parkway Parade & the new supermkt there. He ended up having to wait in long queue to get to the carpark. In the end, his wife only managed to get 2 pkts of sugar on special offer. He told his wife just to save on the discounted sugar, he had wasted 2 pax precious time, petrol & parking charges. Of course the old fellow didn't know how to cost in that special time he spent with wifey galavanting the new shopping mall. :rotflmao:
There were other gossips in other forums… some say he say "fuel ten" and uncle heard it as "full tank"…
but not sure how true it is, maybe other readers got the sources…
Estéema:Are your compassion geared more towards the more well-off or the less fortunate?Yes, impt to hv compassion. Not many companies build compassion as an assessment part of the orgn's AP. It was centuries later later that universities introduced Ethics as part of nec elective for a bz degree & humanities.
When I see sth impt & not valued, I must speak out, irrespective of it is part of govt initiative. As I've said before I've seen how imperfect scholars/civil servants/head of state can make mistakes with policies & regulations esp when not walk the grd to ustand.
zac's mum:How many % of the population drives? or can afford to drive?The next “sacred cow” to be slain may be the removal of free parking on Sundays and public holidays at HDB car parks. A few such car parks have already started charging.
I’m sure the full removal will be “justified” in plenty of ways. Currently I see the free parking extended as a goodwill gesture to promote extended family bonding visitations as well as breakfast together at the hawker centers.
Let’s see whether some money-minded accountant-type civil servant will see fit to change the rule. And turn a blind eye to the wrath of the people affected by the change. It’s so easy to say “don’t drive lah!” Take public transport on weekends with young kids? Of course possible, but you are forcing your subjects to suffer just to see the grandparents. A ruler with heart will know how to treat the 贫民 with compassion and allow them their little enjoyments. Slog and sweat and suffer...over time will build resentment hor.
GinMocca:Aiyoh....You said non-commercial also has to pay parking and you cited HDB. But you could not answer why a private property do not have to pay parking. You are just digging a hole for yourself.[/quote]Apparently, you don't understand my original reply to motherhen. So I will rephrase in simple to understand way.I say, being commercial or non commercial has nothing to do with whether parking is free or not.limlim:[quote=\"GinMocca\"]
You cannot keep shifting the goal posts. Your definition is non-commercial. Pte houses are non-commercial and I do not pay parking whether I park inside the house or just outside the house ( where the land does not belong to me)
It doesn't matter if some non commercial entity don't charge parking, as being commercial or not has no relevance (which is what I'm saying to MotherHen).
The definition is non-commercial, and many of the various government agencies falls under this category. School is own by gov, so are the agencies, so they make a good example for comparison.
And they pay for parking.
stetan:If there are no clearly defined JD in the first place, there is no justification for asking for additional pay to be compliance with clean wage policy. If you are not happy, why don't you write to the authorities instead of pouring your grouses in forums like what you said.? You know how to \"advise\" other but don't know how to do it yourself?Firstly, you said that teachers should not be forced to do additional duties that does not pertain to teaching. Now you say that all these additional duties are to be done by teachers because they are in the teachers' JD ( yet you are unable to provide any tinee-weenee bit of evidence to substantiate that these are all in the official JD).limlim:
Hello, you are the one who is campaigning that teachers should be paid extra because of the \"additional work\" out of JD, in line with clean wage policy.
Hence, the onus is on you to show that those are \"additional work\" that not part of the JD.
If you admit that there is no JD, then just say so.
And accept that those duties are do not warrant any extraneous compensation due to clean wage policy.
In fact, no need to argue here, write to MOE, or the authorities and see how ridiculous your reasoning are.
If they need to be paid, they would have been paid already..
You seem to like to change your arguments to suit the prevailing with condition. Is that why your avatar is a chameleon ?limlim:So you are telling me you see our serviceman in hospitals regularly washing the backsides of the patients ? So on my next visit a hospital, can you arrange for a serviceman to wash it for me too ?Are you really so ignorant that you are not aware that SAF have sent troops to aid in relief efforts overseas? And their activities include all those that you have mentioned, and potentially much more. Going to hospitals? maybe. Working as nurse on site, definitely.
When the need arise, or duty calls, Yes, they have to do all that.
What I am telling you is not to take what is posted at websites at face values as typically these job descriptions are worded at a very high level , as opposed to official JDs which will go into details of the R&R of the role. You shouldn't be that gullible, right ?