Thanks Dreamaurora!

Hi Dreamaurora,


Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

Dreamaurora:

I find it's perplexing at the choice of pieces this teacher has chosen for your son. Some of the pieces range from grade 6 e.g. Allemande, Tarantella, to Diploma concert pieces such as Mozart's K284 and Op 25 no 2.

His pieces are like that because of exam requirements (he does the state certification, which is similar to ABRSM, but less stringent in all round requirements and grading, and doesn't have the international recognition of the ABRSM). His teacher enters him at an easier level because she wants him to also spend time on artistic development and building his foundations. She isn't hung up on the exams, so she is quite happy to have her students take their time on those but she expects them to work hard and receive top honours. The more difficult pieces are stretch projects, for competitions and festivals, so he can have fun and exposure while being challenged (and of course perform commendably).

Dreamaurora:

Now I do not know what exactly the teacher means by 'performance level', but to play grade 8 and Diploma level pieces professionally require a much more significant amount of commitment more than just 2-4 months, even if one is naturally very talented (yes, even for professionals).

Actually, he was able to learn the pieces relatively quickly because he had the whole summer vacation to work on them. So actually it's not 2-4 months of 1+ hour a day, but several months of hours and hours and hours a day! And definitely not professional performance level. Just to a level where his teacher feels confident to submit him for school or other community recitals (i.e. he will be able to pull it off decently and maintain my family's honour! ). His competitions/festivals are in 2015, so he will be working on them for quite awhile more. Even if he wins a prize, I certainly don't think he will reach professional level by then. That's not what we are looking for at this stage!

Dreamaurora:

It is certainly impressive if your DS can pull off those pieces you listed well, and if he does he has the technical proficiency to attempt grade 8 definitely, but it is really not the point of learning IMO.

I understand your general point, and I agree that the G8 thing is totally not the point of a musical education. We don't really feel the need for him to take the ABRSM exams (though he thinks differently). But we want to plan for our return in the next few years when he will be in secondary school/preparing to enter secondary school. So we were wondering if he needs to also look at doing ABRSM here. Also, what can keep him challenged back him without him needing to do ABRSM until he absolutely needs to. And if he needs to, what level can we expect to see him start at. Can we go straight to G8 or do we need to do 6 or 7? What happens after they finish G8? Stuff like that. You don't have to answer these questions. Just stuff that we are grappling with.

I know his musical ability and learning cannot be taken away from him, and listening to him play one can hear roughly where he stands, but we would feel vexed if he came back and his certificates and prizes meant little. It is reassuring though, from your reply that there is plenty you engage your students in without having to sit for exams. I suppose then, it is important to find the right teacher who would be able to creatively engage the students.

Dreamaurora:

Consider also if your son understands the music at deeper level rather than just regurgitating what the teacher teach him. I think nowadays with the increasing amount of parents (and teachers) pushing for high grades at very young age, it is easy to neglect the overall development of students' musicianship.

I very much appreciate being taken out of the ABRSM rat race. At one point we felt like his teacher in Singapore was pushing him too hard to take higher and higher levels, and, as you say, neglecting developing his overall musicianship. Fortunately, we moved here and there is a different focus. It was a struggle for him at first, and for me too because I was wondering if he was falling behind especially since some of the pieces he was playing seemed \"easy\", but then his teachers demanded so much more artistic expression that now we realise that the easy part is learning and memorising the notes, then comes the months of painfully hard work polishing up phrasing, tone, expression etc. Plus, the teachers don't spoon-feed interpretation, they always like to ask what he thought followed by a discussion. He hated it! :frustrated: :frustrated: :frustrated:

We have also observed that DS2, who had most of his music lessons in this country is a lot more musically sensitive than DS1 at the same age. I have videos to prove it! But of course, I never say this to them la.

Dreamaurora:

My other students who are not in a rush to complete grade 8 enjoy more stimulating lessons that allow them to develop their critical thinking and creative expressions. They also receive much more well-rounded musical development in other aspects such as chamber playing, improvising, composing, etc.

I fully agree with you that there is so much to be said for a more well-rounded music education. He enjoys music much more now. He also plays in the local schools chamber strings/orchestra and in ensembles with his brother. He wouldn't have time for this if he were just focused on scoring distinctions for exams.

Dreamaurora:

In Singapore, most of the major boards are presented. ABRSM has more specific prerequisites, but the board does accept grade 8s from other boards (or grade 10 RCM). Other boards such as Trinity and LCM have more relaxed requirements. In the case of Trinity, there is not even any prerequisites. LCM I think demands only grade 6 and 8 ABRSM theory for the first level.

Could you explain what these prerequisites/requirements are for? For diploma? So hypothetically, if we want to skip ABRSM G8, but are thinking of diploma in the future (not that we are), we should check if ABRSM accepts the state certification that he is doing. If not, we just need to be prepared for the pain of doing G8.

Thanks so much again for your time and effort in responding to my long long post. I really appreciate your candid views.
:thankyou:

Hi Dreamaurora,


I’m currently living in the US. My sons play the piano and I was wondering if you could advise me on their level vis-a-vis the ABRSM Grades because they are under a different system here and his teacher is unfamiliar with ABRSM. We will probably return home one day and I would like to do some mid to long-term planning.

DS1 did ABRSM Grade 4 practical and Grade 5 theory before we came here. We moved around a bit in the past few years, so he had to change teachers which was a little disruptive to his learning. He has been with his current teacher for a year and now that she knows him well, she has begun to push him a little. He is currently working on Chopin Etudes Op 25, 2 and Op 10, 5; Bach French Suite No. 6 Allemande & Gigue; Villa-Lobos O Polichinelo; Mary Leaf Wizard Fantasy; Dianne Rahbee’s Concertino No. 1. He took about 2 - 4 months to reach performance level (memorized, interpretation, at tempo) for the etude Op25, 2; the Allemande; Villa-Lobos. But of course still has much room for polishing and refinement before competition/festival-level. But can play for recital already. He has plenty of other pieces in his repertoire which his teacher will reintroduce for competition purposes (Mozart Sonata in D K284, MacDowell Tanrantella etc).

What is the corresponding ABRSM level we are looking at? If we returned in the next 2-3 years, would he be able to manage Grade 8 or Diploma (based on technical ability alone)? Does he need these certificates if he has his US qualifications (eg for DSA)? Do I need to start thinking of taking ABRSM on our own here? What are his options if he wants to continue to pursue piano (as a secondary school student) if he has completed the ABRSM grades? I don’t think he will be mature enough for Diploma 3-5 years (he’s 9 now). But I want him to be challenged and pushed while waiting for emotional age to catch up with technical ability. He is into competitions and even if he has no music exams here, he has plenty of festivals and competitions to keep him on his toes.

DS2 is finishing up Suzuki Piano Book 2. Would he be at about Grade 2 or 3 level? He is not doing competitions or exams here yet. What can I do for him to ease him into ABRSM system after learning under a (fantastic) Suzuki teacher?

I know I’m asking a lot. I have read your posts and you strike me to be very very thoughtful about teaching music. So I thought you might be the best person to seek advice from.

Thank you so much!

Porky Pig


If you want to do it, go for it! This is a good age. It gets more complicated as they grow older, unless you wait for DS to be shipped off to NS and you only need to worry about DD…

Jennifer:

Integer:

[quote=\"buds\"]Yay, Integer, the bubor cha cha cha fix is now settled. We ladies (well, most of us) are really easy to please. We are easily contented with the simplest things in life.. cheap thrills.. whatever you call it.. :love:


Now where is this deeeeeliciouso dessert stall?

You peeps in the East are really spoilt for choice you know!
There's great food in every corner. :love:

The stall is in the coffee shop nearest to the Geylang East Polyclinic.

Yes! Our eastern side does have LOTS of good and sometimes even cheap food. Just that very coffeeshop above, the teochew fish porridge was gd, batang is sooo fresh, don't feel thirsty after drinking the soup - all for $3. The braised duck rice my sis had was so gd portioned and delicious with their lor, $2.50. My bubor cha cha is $1.60, but huge portion. The jelly with cocktail fruits wh I bought back, also, $1.60, was even bigger portion, comfortably shared by the 3 of us. :love:

Stay tuned to my home thread when you're free. I hope I'll be able to share lots of good eating places in the East, wh unfortunately are a bit too far for u. But I thought I rem u sharing abt going with yr family to somewhere in the East having Indo food - the one with the flying looking fried fish? :?

I so envy pple living in the East with good food.[/quote]I so envy pple living in Singapore with good food.

But I know what you mean. When I was home last summer, I stayed with my in-laws in the East. It was heaven...

slmkhoo:

Porky Pig:

I am thinking of relocating to USA for work. My HQ is at Minneapolis and there are many sales office in the various states. My sister is based in Chicago and i love her place at Champaign. However i am a bit hesitant as i am not sure how my 2 kiddos will be able to take it. Currently i am adopting a wait and see attitude first.

Adapting to the US is usually quite easy for kids, especially when they are younger. Returning to Singapore can be harder because the school system is more demanding and expectations are higher. I believe your son is already quite old, so he is the one who may find social adjustment to the US and returning to Singapore particularly hard. But it only gets harder as they get older.

Porky Pig, how old are your kids, and what are their personalities like? If they are young (elementary school), especially if you live in a big, diverse city, the adjustment will be less painful. Location is very important. I have lived in 3 different cities in the US: my experience is has been affected by the number of snow-storms, tornadoes, heat waves, ease of access of Asian foodstuffs and other conveniences.

Also, we hate paying taxes here. I don't know how it would work for intra-company international transferees in the US, but half of our pay goes to taxes and we have to pay tax on our overseas income (eg rental...). So, for us, from a purely immediate financial perspective, I think it wasn't worth the effort to move here!!

slmkhoo:

MummyThreeStreams:

...But it's so hard to convince my DS1 (who is good in math), that he needs to draw his models, label them, write the steps neatly etc. when he does nothing of that sort in school! In the meantime, DS2 has atrocious spelling because they don't believe in drilling spelling until the kids are older.

How old are your kids? If still in lower Pr, you can let them have it easy for now. When they are older, and especially when preparing to return, you can try a 'shock' tactic which I did with my kids. I got a 'top schools' paper in English and Maths and let them try it, and marked it to show them what they would get! The US school philosophy is different, and though I liked it in the early years, I feel it allows kids to get sloppy if it continues into the upper Pr years.

... I think about my \"lost\" career. Back home, I was a SAHM, but planned to go back to work this year or next. But now I cannot work at all. By the time we go back, maybe 3 or 5 years later, I will be truly obsolete!
Well, if I could get (freelance, PT) work after 17yrs, then it should be possible for you too. Just don't be too ambitious about what you can get at first.

...Anyway, I am grateful for this experience! Hopefully, my kids will also see this as a positive experience!
Just remind them now and again that Singapore is home, and Singapore schools are different. Don't make it sound too bad, but don't let them think that they will be in the US system forever. If they get to like it too much, the transition can be painful.

Thanks slmkhoo for your advice! DS1 is in P4. He thinks he is super smart because he is way ahead of his peers in math, so I often remind him that it is much more competitive back home. But it think he will need a kick in the butt when we go back for him to pull up his socks. He is quite guai with following teachers' directions, so hopefully the adjustment won't be too bad. The kids miss Singapore a lot. They keep asking to go home. DS1 keeps telling me he prefers the academic environment in Singapore. But I really don't think he knows what he is saying!

I worry more for DS2, who is borderline ADHD, he has really blossomed in the US system. He didn't really give problems in Singapore, because he wants to please and has an attractive personality. But his Singapore teachers used to make comments like how he was very mischievous/playful/active/daydreaming in class etc. But I think in Primary school, teachers will be less tolerant of his antics. We used to think he was academically slow, but he is one of the top kids in his class now, and has no behavioral issues. So his current teachers really deserve a big pat on their backs for his performance.

So far, our limited experience of the US system is that it is great with dealing with those with learning disabilities, or slower learners, but weak in challenging those with higher abilities (recently they made their state testing more rigorous and parents are complaining about high stress and homework etc.) Families will have to take the initiative and use their own resources to keep their kids interested in learning. The enrichment culture is alive and kicking here too!

But life is more than just academics. So I try to remind myself that the \"lack of challenge\" in school, allows us time and energy to pursue other interests, like music, sports, the great outdoors.

Hi everyone!


I have been living in the US for almost 2 years. We have lived overseas before but this stint has been most complicated because we have school-aged kids. My DS1 and DS2 are in public schools because we cannot afford private schools. (Ds3 is in pre-school.)

We chose to live in an area with excellent public schools. Even then, my kids are not stretched academically by the core standards. Fortunately, the school has tried to tailor their teaching so that those who can push ahead, while the slower ones can receive additional attention. They can do this only because of a group of dedicated parent volunteers. So, my kids aren’t bored. I try to supplement at home but it’s very hard because I their school days are long, and I have three of them plus the household to manage.

My main concern now is math and Chinese. I have a Chinese tutor who tries her best, but is really fighting against the tide. My expectations are modest: no need to keep up with Singapore standards…just keep taking baby steps of improvement! As for math, when I have time (rarely) I teach them or give them work for Singapore books. They also log onto mconline. But it’s so hard to convince my DS1 (who is good in math), that he needs to draw his models, label them, write the steps neatly etc. when he does nothing of that sort in school! In the meantime, DS2 has atrocious spelling because they don’t believe in drilling spelling until the kids are older.

They speak perfectly good American English with the Americans and kilat Singlish back home. I used to be alarmed by their Singlish, but we use it a lot here!!

I miss home, but it is getting better. I am slowly developing friendships with locals, that are not superficial. I don’t know any other Singaporean here, and I feel out of place with the Chinese/Taiwanese immigrants. Most of my friends are from church. I think about my "lost" career. Back home, I was a SAHM, but planned to go back to work this year or next. But now I cannot work at all. By the time we go back, maybe 3 or 5 years later, I will be truly obsolete!

But for now, I’m learning to enjoy my adventure. I’m glad for the non-academic opportunities my kids are getting. I love that I am not caught up in the rat race (there is a rat race here too, but I have so few friends that I haven’t been invited to the race…).

I love that there are other families in a similar situation as me…I try to share with my friends at home but they cannot understand the…challenges… They all think I’m having a blast! But I can see it from their perspective, I guess.

Anyway, I am grateful for this experience! Hopefully, my kids will also see this as a positive experience!

Integer:

buds:

Managed to whip up a quickie dinner. Phew! Just in time too. Hubs is back!


http://i62.tinypic.com/11aln69.jpg\">

Nasi lemak tonight, peeps!

:hi5: Me too. Made my version of quickie nasi lemak cos aircon men was ard till almost 7.

Yours look v.yummy...

Waaah! I miss nasi lemak! Would you ladies mind sharing your recipes? My hubby is a nasi lemak fan and he hasn't had proper Nasi lemak in 2 years!

We had chicken rice for dinner last night! Cooked by visiting house guest. I used to cook chicken rice, then I decided I had no time in between my three boys, their activities and the mountains of dish-washing chicken rice generates.

autumnbronze:

MummyThreeStreams:

[quote=\"autumnbronze\"]Alio olio squid ink pasta with scallops, prawns and smoked salmon.

You cooked THAT?

Hi MTS!

You are cute!

It was my first try using squid ink pasta and adding smoked salmon.

I first sauté about 4 cloves of chopped garlic with the prawns. Then i removed the prawns cuz i don't want to over cook them and added some corn kernels and chopped red capsicum.

In the meantime, i steamed the scallops and boiled the pasta. Once they were done, i added the pasta and then both the seafood. Some salt to season and toss. Finally, i added the shredded smoked salmon.

DS went yuck when he saw the black coloured pasta, but nonetheless ate his dinner :imcool: DH commented that the smoked salmon was an unusual but nice twist to the dish.

Try it! You can use normal pasta. Its easy to make [/quote]Thanks for the recipe autumnbronze! That is super awesome!