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    1. Home
    2. VitoRelax
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    Recent Best Controversial
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      lee_yl:
      VitoRelax:

      [quote=\"lee_yl\"]
      Tsk, tsk, resorting to name-calling when you can't win an argument?

      What name did i call you ? OMG, you actually think you won ? šŸ˜‚
      [quote]To answer your question, the x-axis will be the raw scores (discrete variables) and the y-axis the distribution. Given the large population of the cohort, this will take the shape of a bell curve aka normal distribution aka Gaussian distribution. Since a discrete variable is being approximated by a continuous distribution, a continuity correction can be carried out by using the mid-points of the raw score.

      haha this is just copying the textbook without understanding, how then can this be used to determine the probability of 2 person having the same scores ? I suggest you read up on Gaussian distribution and/or Normal Distribution for that matter, your understanding in this topic is shallow.
      [quote]I will leave it here and those interested can read up on their statistics to analyse the distribution of PSLE subjects' t-score.[/quote]from your answer, obviously you do not understand. As it goes in circle, I shall also stop it here and move on ...[/quote]I win the argument hands-down and I can only kindly advise you not to further embarrass yourself with your display of ignorance.[/quote]haha ... self-declared winner, eh you no shame one is it ? didn't even understand the concepts can win ? ... really bye bye liao ... no point replying to arogrant and ignorant guy like you ...

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      lee_yl:

      Tsk, tsk, resorting to name-calling when you can't win an argument?
      What name did i call you ? OMG, you actually think you won ? šŸ˜‚
      [quote]To answer your question, the x-axis will be the raw scores (discrete variables) and the y-axis the distribution. Given the large population of the cohort, this will take the shape of a bell curve aka normal distribution aka Gaussian distribution. Since a discrete variable is being approximated by a continuous distribution, a continuity correction can be carried out by using the mid-points of the raw score. [/quote]haha this is just copying the textbook without understanding, how then can this be used to determine the probability of 2 person having the same scores ? I suggest you read up on Gaussian distribution and/or Normal Distribution for that matter, your understanding in this topic is shallow.
      [quote]I will leave it here and those interested can read up on their statistics to analyse the distribution of PSLE subjects' t-score.[/quote]from your answer, obviously you do not understand. As it goes in circle, I shall also stop it here and move on ... anyway, i will have to \"disappear\" again (maybe until another 6 years like previously ?) Bye ...

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      ChiefKiasu:
      Walao... how come suddenly this thread became all stats and no news? Some more about T-scores and not O-Level scores. I go cross-eyed liao with all the le fishy poisson numbers.

      haha but i didn't start with the poisson number, hor ?
      [quote]When will the posting results be out? I thought the thing is computer generated, right? Could have been done in a few minutes easily. Must be all the managerial \"reviews\" and \"approvals\" that's taking all this time. :frustrated:[/quote]out on Jan 28 lah ...

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      lee_yl:
      VitoRelax:



      OMG, now we are getting out of topic by discussing about Gaussian distribution with CLT to work out the probability of 2 students scoring the same marks. U sure you can use Gaussian distribution for this purpose ? Can I know what will you plot on the x-axis and what will you plot on the y-axis ? Also, what are the discrete variables that you are plotting ?

      You said that \"from a layman perspective, it may be easy to have the same raw score for subjects like Maths and Science but for languages, especially those involving subjective marking like composition and oral, the likelihood is smaller.\" But why would language be any different. Say, the full marks for composition is 20, do your children get marks like 15.12435 out of 20 ? Of course NOT. What they will get is something like 15.5 or 15.0 or 12.5 or 13.0, it's to nearest half mark ! Same for oral and whatnot !

      So, from common sense and example provided by Augmum, we can see that it is not impossible. To apply Gaussian distribution to find the probability is like getting a rocket to go from Pasir Ris to Jurong .... šŸ˜„

      Perhaps, sometimes too much studying can make one gone bonkers and lost touch with reality ! But then again, sometimes, applying a theorem without actually understanding is even more dangerous.

      Cheers

      I find it hilarious that despite what claimed, you obviously do not understand that the t-score is simply a form of z-score (since both the sum and product are linear operators). It is used because CLT coupled with the assumption that the cohort student population is sufficiently large to have a Gaussian distribution of the subject raw PSLE score that we have the t-score. How else does MOE know how to peg the aggregate score to the top 10% or 3%?

      What I have been trying to point out is that while the probability of an identical aggregate score is not zero, it is very low. This is like buying a winning Toto ticket, common sense will tell you that someone will win but the probability that you or I will be the winner is extremely low. Short of having access to MOE's database, the only way to estimate the probability of 2 students having identical scores is to use a statistical model to identify the upper and lower bounds.

      I may have introduced too much statistics to give my argument the required rigor but I did not take into account the possibility you may not have the necessary mental faculty to fully comprehend what I wrote. For that, I apologise.

      I also apologise that you do not understand what Gaussian distribution is for.

      U actually think it can be used to determine the probability of 2 person having the same score ? Fact is, you still haven't answer what will you plot on the x-axis and what will you plot on the y-axis ? Also, what are the discrete variables that you are plotting ? I find it hilarious you can claim yourself to be very rigorous ... šŸ˜‚

      Sometime, one can think too highly of himself/herself ... you are one confused person ...

      As Chief says this is getting out of topic liao, so I shall not respond on this anymore ...

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      lee_yl:
      Nebbermind:

      And on top of that, it only matters when they apply for the same school and that particular t-score falls right at the COP.


      True. That makes the need for balloting even smaller!

      Think one need to know in what context. Not sure you referring to psle or O level.

      In PSLE, before balloting, the t-score determines whether the computer system go thru all your 6 choices first or other's people's 6 choices first ...

      In O level, the chances of balloting is higher than PSLE as there is no t-score per se

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      Augmum:
      SAHMom:



      Hi, I may be wrong but just putting down what I used to learn in Maths probability:
      Yes, each PSLE subject has its own mean and standard deviation applied to all students.
      To get exactly same PSLE T-score to all the decimal places, two students need to have exactly same raw % score for each of the four subjects.
      Not considering half marks (or quarter marks for languages' raw score in 100%), a child has 1/100 X 1/100 X 1/100 X 1/100 chance to get exactly the same marks for each of his 4 subjects like another child.
      That is 1/100000000 chance. I would think this is rare considering our cohort of 40k.

      To play with Mathematical Probability, consider half marks (and quarter marks for languages) possibilities out of 100% for each subject,
      Probability of exactly same raw% for all 4 subjects is like this:
      E X M X S X MT
      =1/400 X 1/200 X 1/200 X 1/400
      = 1/6400000000

      Then not forgetting we each MT has its own mean and standard deviation....
      That will also cause PSLE T -score be different if two children have the same raw %
      One Chinese student's EMSC is 80,81,90,88
      One Tamil student's EMST IS 80,81,90,88
      Both will still have different t-score.

      Makes sense?

      Yes, the mathematical probability calculations u have stated is under theoretical calculations...
      BUT in reality, the BIG cluster of pupils is on top of the bell curve with the highest occurrence probability...

      Yes, of coz ... if the 2 similar raw scores students are taking 2 diff MT...they would def have diff agg T- scores...but i am saying same subject ( i.e same MT) take for example CL...since there are more pupils taking CL as MT...

      Such occurence not likely to occur ? :scratchhead:

      Of cos can occur .... not entirely impossible

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      lee_yl:
      VitoRelax:

      [quote=\"lee_yl\"]

      It is unlikely that two T-score could be the same as the T-score for any subject is a function of the variance and mean of the cohort's raw scores in that subject. While the published T-score is rounded up, rumor has it that in MOE's database, the actual T-score is stored up to 13 decimal places. And it is based on this actual T-score that students are ranked for their school selection.

      Even though it is unlikely but it is still possible.

      if 2 students taking the same 4 subjects in PSLE and got the same raw marks for the 4 subjects, of course their pale T-score will be identical even if it is 1000 decimal places.

      Both students, their papers taken are subjected to the same mean and variance. So of course their t-score will be identical. Eg, if say both take Maths and both got 70 raw marks. Both will be subjected to the same mean & variance for maths. So no matter how you bell curve it, this 2 students with raw marks of 70 after subjected to bell curve will get the same numbers for maths up to even 10,000 decimal places !

      So, if they take same 4 subjects and got the same raw marks, their t-score will be identical up to even 100,000 decimal places !

      What is the probability of at least 2 students scoring the same for every subject?

      From a layman perspective, it may be easy to have the same raw score for subjects like Maths and Science but for languages, especially those involving subjective marking like composition and oral, the likelihood is smaller.

      From a statistical perspective, assuming a Gaussian distribution (due to the large population and central limit theorem) and applying continuity correction to discrete variables, the probability of more than 2 students scoring the same in one subject ranges between 0.01 to 0.05. For the same 2 students to have the exact same score in 4 subjects, the probability could range from (0.01)^4 to (0.05)^4, assuming that these are independent variables. Not zero but very low probability.[/quote]OMG, now we are getting out of topic by discussing about Gaussian distribution with CLT to work out the probability of 2 students scoring the same marks. U sure you can use Gaussian distribution for this purpose ? Can I know what will you plot on the x-axis and what will you plot on the y-axis ? Also, what are the discrete variables that you are plotting ?

      You said that \"from a layman perspective, it may be easy to have the same raw score for subjects like Maths and Science but for languages, especially those involving subjective marking like composition and oral, the likelihood is smaller.\" But why would language be any different. Say, the full marks for composition is 20, do your children get marks like 15.12435 out of 20 ? Of course NOT. What they will get is something like 15.5 or 15.0 or 12.5 or 13.0, it's to nearest half mark ! Same for oral and whatnot !

      So, from common sense and example provided by Augmum, we can see that it is not impossible. To apply Gaussian distribution to find the probability is like getting a rocket to go from Pasir Ris to Jurong .... šŸ˜„

      Perhaps, sometimes too much studying can make one gone bonkers and lost touch with reality ! But then again, sometimes, applying a theorem without actually understanding is even more dangerous.

      Cheers

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Maris Stella High School

      heyhoe:
      Hi MMM and VitoRelax,


      Thanks for the clarification and added information šŸ˜„
      You're welcome ...

      posted in Secondary Schools - Parent Networking Groups
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Networking Group - JCs General

      Augmum:
      VitoRelax:

      [quote=\"Augmum\"]

      Dunno leh... juz check the date of release for last yr which was on 2 Mar...so possible ...

      Haha ...Yes, gal said comes March then starts to worry abt it...
      As for now, she's obviously enjoying her life... šŸ˜‚

      Hi Augmum,

      Good luck to your DD on her A level results ...

      Cheers

      Thanks VitoRelax...

      All the Best to yr DD too... Cheers !!![/quote]Thanks too Augmum because my DD said she really need a lot of luck !

      posted in Tertiary Education - A-Levels
      V
      VitoRelax
    • RE: Results of O levels for 2015 batch out on 11-Jan-2016

      Augmum:

      Since the SAME T- score formula applies to everyone ...n the SAME mean n std deviation apply to all pupils when the same subject is concerned,..it puzzled me as why is it not possible to have identical agg T- scores ??
      ...
      That's because a lot of them know how to use the word \"T-score\" and know how to repeat \"after applying formula got many decimal places\" but they do not know exactly how it is being derived.

      And would you be surprised if I tell you that even some of the teachers briefing the parents also do not understand the formula ? šŸ˜„

      posted in Secondary Schools - Academic Support
      V
      VitoRelax
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