2013 P1 Registration Exercise for 2014 In-Take
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kasparov:
It's logic that appeals to me, not face. pirate did elegantly explained why the process for handling the twins situation this year in MGS and ACSJ may not be fair to parents in Phase 2C, and I do see his logic.ChiefKiasu:
[quote=\"XXXX\"]Firstly kudos to you Chief for conceding pirate's point so gracefully above, it's a lesson for other forum warriors! In my short time here, I've learnt to listen to pirate as he or she knows his stuff. He is probably more well versed on the pros and cons of the P1 registration process than most ministers and civil servants.
As to the balloting mechanism - I noticed today that if your ball is off to one side (stop sniggering at the back) then it won't get into the selection channel for the bucket to pick it up. Some major swirling of the pool of balls is required. Probably effects ballots with small numbers more, but it was alarming waiting for our ball to move back to the selection channel (in the middle) - which it did, thankfully, some 80% through the ballot. :celebrate:
The strange thing is, if there is a ballot, the twins are guaranteed a place in the school, regardless of whether their ball is picked first or last. If their ball is picked early, then one of the other singletons in Phase 2B will be balloted out, and no additional place is taken from Phase 2C. If their ball is picked last, then every child in Phase 2B will get a place, and Phase 2C will lose 1 place.
Given the furore over the priority schemes, such scenarios add to the woes of parents in Phase 2C. No, I don't think MOE made the right call to not conduct a ballot in Phase 2B for those schools, given that there is a high chance the outcome could be quite different for parents in Phase 2C. It is just not right. I can understand if MOE made this decision to make it easier for Phase 2B parents and the schools, but people in Phase 2C should not be penalised for taking this short cut.
PS. BTW, XXXX, if I read your post correctly, I should congratulate you and your child for winning the ballot today!
Since the twins are 'guaranteed' a place when such a ballot is conducted, it is no longer a fair ballot because it is skewed in their favour. It is like having a loaded die or 'ball off to one side' as you said so no point having a ballot. In another scenario where there are say 40 applicants balloting for 35 places, the chances of twins being excluded completely are there. The only thing the ballot rules have assured are that the twins stay together and if they get a place, they deprive singletons of another balloted place.
As to whether it is fair for the 2c applicants, it is unfair insofar as they were not forewarned. The priority scheme accords priority to the earlier phases and the availability of places depends on the number of places taken up in the earlier phase. You could say that in the popular schools for this year especially, the 2b+c phases have been at the mercy of the 1+2a phases.[/quote]In terms of the balloting process, when there are multiple siblings, I think it's still fair, becos they only have one ball, it's not as if they have multiple balls and whichever ball pick will ensure both or more are in.
The part I don't understand is why the vacancy is taken fr P2C. It aeems that way now after reviewing the numbers after P2A2 and P2B. I think this part need to be reviewed becos policy is that P2B and P2C will share the remaining vacancies fr P2A2 equally unless in the event of odd number. -
kasparov:
Since the twins are 'guaranteed' a place when such a ballot is conducted, it is no longer a fair ballot because it is skewed in their favour. It is like having a loaded die or 'ball off to one side' as you said so no point having a ballot. In another scenario where there are say 40 applicants balloting for 35 places, the chances of twins being excluded completely are there. The only thing the ballot rules have assured are that the twins stay together and if they get a place, they deprive singletons of another balloted place....
You do have a valid point that if a ballot is conducted for this situation in Phase 2B, the singleton parents will be disadvantaged compared with the twins. Perhaps this was the consideration of MOE in waiving the ballot. But that decision also affected people in Phase 2C, because there would be a high chance that Phase 2C won't lose a place since it is highly unlikely that the twins' ball will be picked last. Imagine a scenario when the situation involves not twins, but triplets or quadruplets. Phase 2C will not only lose 1 place, but 2 or 3 places, if the ballot is not held in Phase 2B. -
ChiefKiasu:
I guess that would be just unfortunate for the 2C...after all, 2B has higher priority so nothing wrong if due to (rare) circumstances there's a need for a couple more vacancies.
You do have a valid point that if a ballot is conducted for this situation in Phase 2B, the singleton parents will be disadvantaged compared with the twins. Perhaps this was the consideration of MOE in waiving the ballot. But that decision also affected people in Phase 2C, because there would be a high chance that Phase 2C won't lose a place since it is highly unlikely that the twins' ball will be picked last. Imagine a scenario when the situation involves not twins, but triplets or quadruplets. Phase 2C will not only lose 1 place, but 2 or 3 places, if the ballot is not held in Phase 2B. -
ChiefKiasu:
kasparov:
Since the twins are 'guaranteed' a place when such a ballot is conducted, it is no longer a fair ballot because it is skewed in their favour. It is like having a loaded die or 'ball off to one side' as you said so no point having a ballot. In another scenario where there are say 40 applicants balloting for 35 places, the chances of twins being excluded completely are there. The only thing the ballot rules have assured are that the twins stay together and if they get a place, they deprive singletons of another balloted place....
You do have a valid point that if a ballot is conducted for this situation in Phase 2B, the singleton parents will be disadvantaged compared with the twins. Perhaps this was the consideration of MOE in waiving the ballot. But that decision also affected people in Phase 2C, because there would be a high chance that Phase 2C won't lose a place since it is highly unlikely that the twins' ball will be picked last. Imagine a scenario when the situation involves not twins, but triplets or quadruplets. Phase 2C will not only lose 1 place, but 2 or 3 places, if the ballot is not held in Phase 2B.
It seems that the pie is limited and MOE is best able to explain why they have not absorbed the extra places. -
kasparov:
ChiefKiasu:
[quote=\"kasparov\"]Since the twins are 'guaranteed' a place when such a ballot is conducted, it is no longer a fair ballot because it is skewed in their favour. It is like having a loaded die or 'ball off to one side' as you said so no point having a ballot. In another scenario where there are say 40 applicants balloting for 35 places, the chances of twins being excluded completely are there. The only thing the ballot rules have assured are that the twins stay together and if they get a place, they deprive singletons of another balloted place....
You do have a valid point that if a ballot is conducted for this situation in Phase 2B, the singleton parents will be disadvantaged compared with the twins. Perhaps this was the consideration of MOE in waiving the ballot. But that decision also affected people in Phase 2C, because there would be a high chance that Phase 2C won't lose a place since it is highly unlikely that the twins' ball will be picked last. Imagine a scenario when the situation involves not twins, but triplets or quadruplets. Phase 2C will not only lose 1 place, but 2 or 3 places, if the ballot is not held in Phase 2B.
It seems that the pie is limited and MOE is best able to explain why they have not absorbed the extra places.[/quote]It's interesting because if this exact same scenario had happened in 2C, the school would have to create an extra space for the twin. Why they couldn't just do this for 2B instead of taking away from 2C is baffling. -
Fried chicken:
It's interesting because if this exact same scenario had happened in 2C, the school would have to create an extra space for the twin. Why they couldn't just do this for 2B instead of taking away from 2C is baffling.[/quote]Creating space perhaps only as a last resort. MOE may have a directive to keep total enrolment as constant as far as possible. There is no strict quota system for each phase, only a priority system. If a ballot cannot be conducted fairly, space is taken from the next phase.kasparov:
[quote=\"ChiefKiasu\"]
You do have a valid point that if a ballot is conducted for this situation in Phase 2B, the singleton parents will be disadvantaged compared with the twins. Perhaps this was the consideration of MOE in waiving the ballot. But that decision also affected people in Phase 2C, because there would be a high chance that Phase 2C won't lose a place since it is highly unlikely that the twins' ball will be picked last. Imagine a scenario when the situation involves not twins, but triplets or quadruplets. Phase 2C will not only lose 1 place, but 2 or 3 places, if the ballot is not held in Phase 2B.
It seems that the pie is limited and MOE is best able to explain why they have not absorbed the extra places. -
lepetitpenguin:
Yes, probable there's 2 pair of twin or 1 triplet. acsp is a bit complicated. there's was 2 withdrawal from phase1, 2 withdraw from phase 2a1 and 1 withdrawal from phase 2a2. Not too sure how these extra places allocated to phase 2b & c.
wiltanws,
You'd mentioned for ACSP, as for withdrawals, -2(P1), -2(P2A1) & -1(P2A2). Where can we get this specific information? I'd enquired pre P2B for this information with the schools on my shortlist, but they (the schools) were not prepared/able/willing to give information this specific. They were only referencing past years Ballot chances vis-a-vis distance, which is information that is already well detailed in this website. Withdrawal information would be particularly useful when strategizing for the later Phases if the vacancies are allocated then or at least for the so-called Waitlist.
Many tks.[/quote]
I got to know this because I copy and paste and save all the data published by MOE website whenever there's any changes such as different phases or different days within same phase. So I can see there's changes to the figures
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Till now, there’s total of 64 withdrawal from Phase1, 8 withdrawal from 2A1 and 37 withdrawal from Phase 2A2 after the closing date of respective phases.
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wiltanws:
Till now, there's total of 64 withdrawal from Phase1, 8 withdrawal from 2A1 and 37 withdrawal from Phase 2A2 after the closing date of respective phases.
there will be withdrawals...parents register their kids under phase 1 and 2A2 to secure a place first, while closely monitoring the situation under 2C which could be nearer home or for some other reasons. -
sembgal:
Only the principal of PLMGPS can answer how phase 2B ended up with having 3 more places than phase 2C. MOE should be informed about this decision made by that principal from PLMGPS.[/quote]Just to share that at the start of registration, P1 has 74 registered, & after P2A2, it showed 73 registered under P1, probably someone withdrew from P1, so at the start of P2B, there were 73 places and supposedly still have 72 places for 2C. Not sure if a pair of twins was among those balloting for the remaining places & caused 1 more child taken in at P2B & hence, 1 less place at 2C. Therefore, the figure is now 74 at P2B & 71 at P2C.
how abt plmgs? there was balloting and the numbers also ended up with 2B having 3 more places than 2c.wiltanws:
[quote=\"crusader\"]
MGS, ACJS, and now ACPS (all Methodist schools too) - no balloting because applicants (involving twins/triplets) exceeded vacancies by the exact number required.
Cheers
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