P2 Math - General Discussion

[en107rn.01056yahoo.01056com.01056sg]

Hi


Such difficult questions are common in school However, not all school teachers take their time to explain to the students on how to solve it. I was looking through my son workbook and I make a remark to him as I was impressed that he manage to tackle such a difficult question. He told me that when he struggles to answer the question, he asked his teacher for help. The answer that he had gotten from his teacher is to just copy the answer on the board. No explanation was done. I can’t lay the blame on the teacher though. Glancing through the exam score during parents teacher meeting, the marks of the student range from 8 - 97. With huge variance between the top and the bottom marks & majority in the 50-60s range, the teacher main concentration is to ensure that all kids have basic knowledge to move on.

Speaking to another teacher in one of the elite school, she cited the reason why some of the question posed in the exam is extremely difficult. It is to differentiate an average student to high ability & the gifted.


Hi Tianzhu

I saw in another thread on the P5 & 6 Math. I practically weep when I look at the questions. Wonder how can I help to guide my children when they reach that level.

[lizawa]

[quote]Speaking to another teacher in one of the elite school, she cited the reason why some of the question posed in the exam is extremely difficult. It is to differentiate an average student to high ability & the gifted. [/quote]
This is very true. A small number of questions ( 1 - 2) are really high order questions in PSLE. You learn the technique only if you are exposed to Maths Olympiad questions. Even in the top P6 class, the Maths SA1 marks range from 60 - 100. Average is about mid 80s.

[matrix0405]

Some question are really IQ questions (out of syllabus); if your kid is exposed to the same type of question before, then he will be able to handle … more on experience than intelligence.

[tamarind]

Anyone came across any P1 maths problems which are interesting, or ridiculous, or not age appropriate ?


I came across this maths problem in the P1 assessment of Nanyang Primary School.

There were 51 passengers in a bus. Some passengers alighted at the first bus stop. How many passengers alighted at the first bus stop if 39 passengers were left in the bus ?

Are the teachers trying to test the students' English or Maths ?

I also think that it is not reasonable to expect 7 year old children to know how to do 51 - 39. I am talking about an average child. Not those gifted ones or those who have been through countless enrichment classes.

I went through MOE syllabus for P1, don't see anything about teaching subtraction of 2 digit numbers. What is Nanyang primary school trying to do ?

[en107rn.01056yahoo.01056com.01056sg]

Hi Tamarind


I came across this question when I was revising math with ds. This qs is found in one of his revision book. I remember this question so well, because I mark his answer wrong & he argued why he insist his is right. When I re-read the question, I found that I mis-interpret the question, peek through the answer behind & :oops: he is right.

The talk that I have with a teacher from elite school is that, the school will purposely set a few questions that requires higher level thinking. It will help them to segregate the students who has high ability, from those who don't.

Having 2 kids from two different types of school, I agree with the elite school method to identify the high ability students. Some school exam questions are quite simple for average students. It will result in majority of the students getting full marks or near to prefect score. Identification of high ability students will not be based on ability to do math but ability to be conscientious to not make any silly or careless mistake.

By the way, P1 in neighbourhood school covers up to 100. And yes, they are expected to know 51-39 by 3rd/4th semester.

[jedamum]

EN:

By the way, P1 in neighbourhood school covers up to 100. And yes, they are expected to know 51-39 by 3rd/4th semester.

Yes. They will be taught borrowing and bringing forward and number bonds addition and subtraction for 2 digit numbers.

tamarind:

Anyone came across any P1 maths problems which are interesting, or ridiculous, or not age appropriate ?

I came across this maths problem in the P1 assessment of Nanyang Primary School.

There were 51 passengers in a bus. Some passengers alighted at the first bus stop. How many passengers alighted at the first bus stop if 39 passengers were left in the bus ?

tamarind,
I'm glad that you find it ridiculous.
I thought that was the norm....cos a peek at some of the P1 assessments reveals numerous similar questions.

[MMM]

During SA2, I gave my girl the past year papers of various schools. Particularly for maths, the std differs widely. Eg. in "top schools", it is observed to be alot more tricky that sometimes as parents, we need to digest the requirement before we can guide them. Whereas in others, the questions are alot more straightforward.


Dun want to name schools here, but it’s true eg. for some neighbourhood schools, she found the paper easy and score around 90+ but for top schools, she only get an avg of 75-80.

[sleepy]

Is it necessary to buy exam papers set by elite schools?


Doing assessment books not sufficient?

I noticed assessment books have varying standards to cater for different abilities too

[MMM]

I didn't buy and simply downloaded from http://www.misskoh.com.sg. They have the top school and some neighbour school papers there.


Also, was kiasu previously and bought assessment of all sorts. Then realised that not all assessment are great so end up alot of assessments are untouch and we didn't have the time to do all anyway. This year, I only buy selectively eg. I just got the Andrew Er for maths, eph assessment (all in 1) for english. Personally found eph assessment better esp the book that has grammar, vocab, grammar and vocab cloze, comprehensive, compo, listing comprehension, etc... Used that as last minute revision for my girl's SA2 and she had 54/55 for her main paper. A significant improvement.

[tamarind]

EN,

I also looked at the SA1 papers from RGPS, Tao Nan, and Pei Chun. None of the schools require the students to subtract two double digit numbers greater than 20. That's why I thought it is not normal for Nanyang to set this question.

The problem with Nanyang primary school setting this type of question, is that they will only prompt parents to send their kids to more maths enrichment classes to prepare their kids well !

I don't think that bus question is a good question that requires higher order thinking. That question requires a very good command of English. I think the following question is better. It is also from Nanyang.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/tamarind/P1_maths.jpg\">


I feel that a good school should not be so concerned with identifying the cream of the crop. These students are only at P1 ! The school should be more concerned with making sure that all their students have a good understanding of basic maths.

I am teaching young adult students Calculus. Some of them cannot even divide 2 simple fractions. Something is wrong with our education system.

jedamum,
I think that question is badly written. Even as an adult, I need to read it 2 times to understand what it is asking.

The question I posted :
There were 51 passengers in a bus. Some passengers alighted at the first bus stop. How many passengers alighted at the first bus stop if 39 passengers were left in the bus ?

I realized that it is much more important to make sure that our kids can read English very well ! Otherwise they cannot even understand the question to know that they need to do 51 - 39 !

Why use the word \"alighted\" ? My english standard is not very high. So I don't expect a P1 student to know what is \"alighted\". Why not just use \"got off\" the bus ?

Also why use \"first bus stop\" ? Why not just use \"a bus stop\" ? The word \"first\" only makes the question more confusing. We are talking about 7 year old children here.

sleepy,
You can also download from http://www.test-paper.info.

I feel that doing exam papers set by elite schools is better than doing assessment books. Those schools are experts in producing top students, right ?

Actually I am not going to make my kids do these papers lah. I am just doing research for my own knowledge only. I am trying to get an idea about how to prepare my kids before they enter P1. There are many ways to teach a child maths. I am not keen to use the assessment book method.