SAHP or working is better?
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ks2me:
Where is the teacher? The teacher should teach and correct the boy's behaviour.
My child went for a class today and first thing she stepped in, a boy said \"Kill her!\", only because she was new?? :roll: :roll: -
ooptimizer:
Yes, the teacher should correct the boy's behaviour, but alot of times, it doesn't work.
Where is the teacher? The teacher should teach and correct the boy's behaviour.
I know of a 13 year old boy who always gets bullied in school by the class bully. I asked him, did he report to the teacher? He said, \"yes, i reported to the teacher, the teacher already punished him, put him in detention and even caned him....but every time i reported, after punishement, he would bully me even more, even harder....so i don't want to report him already, only make my life worse after reporting\"
So i told him, \"Just whack the bully hard, give him a black eye, then drag him to the teacher and ask the teacher to punish both of u. Tell him every single time he bullies you, he will get a black eye. I can guarantee after one hard whacking, he won't dare to bully u anymore. Your problem is solved once and for all.\"
Guess what the poor boy said?
\" What if I lose the fight, how?\" :stupid:
It's the same as in real life. Bullies get away scot-free unless we stand up for ourselves and use Righteous Violence appropriately. It need not be physical violence, but also includes verbal threats, whatever it takes to put bullies in their place.
My ex-policeman best friend recounted to me a story, of how a small-time hooligan, ate at a hawker stall, and refused to pay and walk away. There's nothing the police can do, except advise the hawker to launch a civil suit. A lawsuit over $3 of noodles?!? They could do nothing but let the bully go scot free. These people need a good dose of Righteous Whacking. -
skunk:
Wah, you're right about the Barbie Doll World.
U r quite right, but my point is, most parents simply prevent their kids from having an opportunity to learn in the first place, by sheltering them in a \"Barbie Doll world\".Blobbi:
Em, Fighting doesn't help you learn about anger and conflict management. Fighting gives you the opportunity to learn about it, but it's not an automatic next step.
In fact, children learn about anger and conflict management by watching their parents model it. We do need to step in when they're young to remind them not to use their fists, because violence and strength is not the answer (It was back in the stone age days, but times are different mah). The difficulty is in resolving conflict, and so long as they're not duking it out or there is an obvious case of bullying, I leave them alone. After the event and after they've cooled down, I just ask if they'd like to play again. If they do, then what do they think should be done? They'll figure it out after awhile.
I disagree with the 2nd part, there's such a thing as \"Righteous Violence\". Violence is not the ultimate answer, but sometimes, it's a necessary one
I don't believe in violence, which brings me to ... -
skunk:
...
whether we like it or not, we live in a world where the civilised has to share space with the uncivilised. And for the civilised to survive, we must have certain uncivil tactics to deal with the uncivilised.ks2me:
My child went for a class today and first thing she stepped in, a boy said \"Kill her!\", only because she was new?? :roll: :roll:
No point being a gentleman with a barbarian, and a gentleman who's unable to subdue a barbarian, will one day find civility vanquished.
Children who occasionally fight, argue and quarrel, learn the finer points of dealing with the nasty bits of human-human relationships, by being involved in the very thick of it.
All it takes for Evil to succeed, is for Good Men to do nothing about it.
If your daughter has been trained in the finer art of tackling barbarians, she would have kicked that boy's arse, and save other children from emotional harm. Or at the very least, be toughened, so that his mean words would not have harmed her.
I've seen for myself how \"office wimps\" run off to cry in the toilet after being reprimanded by the manager or teased by colleagues. OMG, it's only a reprimand, for goodness sakes.
I can imagine many years ago, in kindergarten/school, they would have been the kids who would cry and allow the class bully to have his way.
I've often wondered how it would be - I tell my kid not to whack back, but the other fella, sometimes instigated by the MUM, whops a hard one. Sure lose in the adult world, right?
So, I still insist on the right values, as in, don't resort to violence. I have though, *blush*, on occasion looked the other way when my kid is returning the insult. Use aggressive rhetoric (lucky this one, it's inborn in my kid) and be proactive. A dash of humour to maloo the other guy is the best. Whatever it is, act fast, nip it in the bud and don't be a wimp!! This takes years to happen.
I've seen such ridiculous bullying in the office, and the champion bullies will often be the ones who get promoted! Depends on what sort of boss you have - I didn't put up with it, either downwards or upwards. But it is tiresome and draining. -
Blobbi:
Verbal assault is also considered \"righteous violence\". I do not encourage it, but i do believe it's sometimes necessary.I have though, *blush*, on occasion looked the other way when my kid is returning the insult. Use aggressive rhetoric (lucky this one, it's inborn in my kid) and be proactive. A dash of humour to maloo the other guy is the best. Whatever it is, act fast, nip it in the bud and don't be a wimp!! This takes years to happen.
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autumnbronze:
Wow. This is a new level of sick ...ks2me:
Interestingly, the school told me that they had met so obnoxious kids who told them that teachers could not scold them because THEY(the kids) were paying their salaries. For such children and parents, the door is always open outwards for them according to the school and I cheer the school for this. No big no small!!!! Now you know why we need εΌεθ§...*sigh*
ks2me,
You mean they start so young ....... (Referring to statement in bold)
I thought this only happens with older kids. My colleague had that thrown at her, and mind you, we were teaching in one of the top schs .... Then another one related how one girl told her \"what have you got to teach that I don't already know\" :!:
All this can happen whether there is a SAHP at home or not. Sometimes, these kids carry the attitude from their parents, and sometimes, they're just young and arrogant. If the latter, I hope the parents can jump in and correct them. Life will eventually deal with them anyway, but it will be a lot harsher. -
autumnbronze:
Yes these are primary school kids as young as primary 1. it boils down to ugly attitutde they have seen in their parents or tv exposure that was not guided. Same concern that skunk n 2ppaamm have for some kids who are only left to maids' care.
ks2me,
You mean they start so young ....... (Referring to statement in bold)
I thought this only happens with older kids. My colleague had that thrown at her, and mind you, we were teaching in one of the top schs .... Then another one related how one girl told her \"what have you got to teach that I don't already know\" :!:
I am glad that school offer the door to such children. They need to know the world does not exist around them. Can you imagine they grow up as adults like this?? *sigh*
Btw as much as I do not want to generalize so far the obnoxious children we met are from elite schools. So I believe alot is also to do w their non-humble beginnings. -
[/quote]
How about starting a tuition centre, and run it but don't teach in it? Will that work for trained teachers?[/quote]
What I did for extra income is give tuition at home. Time is flexible.
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skunk:
Hi Skunk, I must admit that I find most of your views rather extreme but interesting. However on the above, surprisingly, I agree with you wholeheartedly. :celebrate:
Yes, the teacher should correct the boy's behaviour, but alot of times, it doesn't work.ooptimizer:
Where is the teacher? The teacher should teach and correct the boy's behaviour.
I know of a 13 year old boy who always gets bullied in school by the class bully. I asked him, did he report to the teacher? He said, \"yes, i reported to the teacher, the teacher already punished him, put him in detention and even caned him....but every time i reported, after punishement, he would bully me even more, even harder....so i don't want to report him already, only make my life worse after reporting\"
So i told him, \"Just whack the bully hard, give him a black eye, then drag him to the teacher and ask the teacher to punish both of u. Tell him every single time he bullies you, he will get a black eye. I can guarantee after one hard whacking, he won't dare to bully u anymore. Your problem is solved once and for all.\"
Guess what the poor boy said?
\" What if I lose the fight, how?\" :stupid:
How shall I put it? Maybe as what you mentioned, I did bring up my son in a barbie doll world. Or perhaps it's just his nature to be 'soft'. I could still remember clearly the lost look on his face when the toy he was playing was snatched away by a 2 year old. He just didn't know what to do. And he was three then and much bigger size than the 2 year old. Because of his bigger build, I had always cautioned him to be careful when playing with other kids. Even got scolding from me when he got a little rough. That made him rather unhappy. But it always ended him being bullied. (Btw, bullies come in all sizes, big or small. Another friend's son also kenna bullied by kids much smaller size than him.) But an incident (which resulted him in a high fever) happened two years ago totally changed my mindset. I suppose if the kids wanna play together, then parents have to be mentally prepared for some unforseen accidents or fights. For my own son, I advised him to defend for himself if alerting adults don't work. Guess what his reply was? \"What if I hurt him/her?\" :stupid: Then came the same question \"What if I lose?\" :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: I had to tell him that he would get a thrashing from me if he did lose. Either fight or flight. If he chose to fight, then be sure that he emerged as the winner (even with injuries). Otherwise, the bullying would never stop.
Call me an extremist but this way works best for my kiddo. Since then, he has not much problem with his friends. And of course, I stopped hovering over his shoulder and reminding him to be extra careful with kids his age. After all, it should be a level playing field. -
Skunk, quoting your reply is too long but hereβs my reply:
I believe evil can never precede good, yes albeit sometimes it looked like the good is disadvantaged temporarily but my repeated encounters over the years showed that good would eventually reap the benefits.
What you see is the surface value of loss but the ultimate win is sweeter. I have met an obnoxious mum who spoke like a hooligan n I walked away. I would not even waste any further breath to speak another word with her. Eventually she aged faster than me and had lesser friends.
I agree there are some cowards that just need to be roared at. So it depends on the situation. If roaring does not make me look negative like a bully, I will apply that technique accordingly. Like blobbi, fortunately my child is born with natural instinct for defence. She is not violent but I have seen her managed difficult situations on her own before instinctively without exerting violence. albeit she is blessed it does not reduce my pain to see so many ill behaved kids around whom the parents have invested so much in their brain development but nothing for their spirit. Such a waste of talent!
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