2014 PSLE Discussions and Strategy
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slmkhoo:
I agree. My daughter who is in an IP school has no idea which subjects she is likely to take at A levels and no idea what A levels require either. In fact, what they do so far (she's only experienced yrs 2 & 3) are very non-A level (lots of projects and assignments requiring experiments, photos, videos, writing, presentations etc, and lots of CCA and CIP stuff), compared to my other daughter who is preparing for A levels now.[/quote]But it is such a waste, if you are already good at these stuff...As against these stuff ,O level provides that opportunity to Test out yourself at national level..
No, I don't agree that the IP students start preparing for A levels from Year 1. The extra time they have gives them the opportunity to do other activities which are out of syllabus, or pursue non-academic activities. That's why they're busy - not because they're being drilled for A levels.jtoh:
[quote=\"janet_lee88\"]Getting paper done one after another is depressing.
This kind of intensive work is a bit heavy at 11-12 years of age...but for O levels, somehow I don't think of it as a torture...maybe because they are older...for kids doing IP, they go straight into preparing for A levels from the time they start sec 1.
IP schools should use extra time for Contrasting subjects or make it 2 contrasting subjects learning mandatory.
i also feel IP students are mainly Science/Maths proficient. PSLE T score has 2 languages & 2 maths/science... but you can't score as well in languages. -
DadOfGirl:
My view is that since I think that my daughter would most likely progress to A levels after taking O levels, I don't really see that it's a waste for her not to take O levels. Testing herself at national level at this stage isn't that important to us. If she had to take time to revise for them, then she would have less time for the 'other stuff', including the non-academic stuff which she is enjoying. Not that she isn't learning as much or more compared to the O level syllabus, but as we all know, revision for major exams takes a lot more time than for internal exams.But it is such a waste, if you are already good at these stuff...As against these stuff ,O level provides that opportunity to Test out yourself at national level..
IP schools should use extra time for Contrasting subjects or make it 2 contrasting subjects learning mandatory.
i also feel IP students are mainly Science/Maths proficient. PSLE T score has 2 languages & 2 maths/science... but you can't score as well in languages.
Are you referring to contrasting subjects at A level? If there are 2 contrasting subjects out of 4, then every student would have a half-half combination? I'm actually against having even one mandatory contrasting subject as it limits students' choices. There are students who are skewed in their interests and abilities, either towards sciences or humanities, and it's hard on them to have to take one subject they struggle with or have no interest in. If all students have to have an equal split between science and arts, it only benefits all-rounders, not the more one-sided. We need all sorts in an economy.
I'm not sure about your observation that IP students are mainly Maths/Science-proficient. I see that my daughter's schoolmates cover the spectrum from good at science, or good at arts, or all-rounders. -
jtoh:
That's my impression too.
No, I don't agree that the IP students start preparing for A levels from Year 1. The extra time they have gives them the opportunity to do other activities which are out of syllabus, or pursue non-academic activities. That's why they're busy - not because they're being drilled for A levels.janet_lee88:
Getting paper done one after another is depressing.
This kind of intensive work is a bit heavy at 11-12 years of age...but for O levels, somehow I don't think of it as a torture...maybe because they are older...for kids doing IP, they go straight into preparing for A levels from the time they start sec 1. -
slmkhoo:
What are criteria to get in IP ? T-score above 260. How do you get T-score above 260? By contribution of Maths & science to fullest & do well in English & MT. Not other way around. If you have A* in English & MT would it get you T score of 260.. Nope. If you have A* in MAths & Science , would you get 260 .. most likely. Std deviation in MAths & science make it possible.
My view is that since I think that my daughter would most likely progress to A levels after taking O levels, I don't really see that it's a waste for her not to take O levels. Testing herself at national level at this stage isn't that important to us. If she had to take time to revise for them, then she would have less time for the 'other stuff', including the non-academic stuff which she is enjoying. Not that she isn't learning as much or more compared to the O level syllabus, but as we all know, revision for major exams takes a lot more time than for internal exams.DadOfGirl:
But it is such a waste, if you are already good at these stuff...As against these stuff ,O level provides that opportunity to Test out yourself at national level..
IP schools should use extra time for Contrasting subjects or make it 2 contrasting subjects learning mandatory.
i also feel IP students are mainly Science/Maths proficient. PSLE T score has 2 languages & 2 maths/science... but you can't score as well in languages.
Are you referring to contrasting subjects at A level? If there are 2 contrasting subjects out of 4, then every student would have a half-half combination? I'm actually against having even one mandatory contrasting subject as it limits students' choices. There are students who are skewed in their interests and abilities, either towards sciences or humanities, and it's hard on them to have to take one subject they struggle with or have no interest in. If all students have to have an equal split between science and arts, it only benefits all-rounders, not the more one-sided. We need all sorts in an economy.
I'm not sure about your observation that IP students are mainly Maths/Science-proficient. I see that my daughter's schoolmates cover the spectrum from good at science, or good at arts, or all-rounders.
This cohort must be asked to learn 2 contrasting subject, because they are ultimately going to take PCME or BCME (A -level), though they are not aware till Sec-3. It will not be bad idea to decide at sec-2 end( Like o levels) what will their subject combination at A -level & built 2 contrasting sbject in sec3 & 4 One of which will be used as contrasting subject requirement.
I kind of get feeling that educators realize need to develop Maths/Science students holistically which has promted need to develop IP course. You are good academically , society needs you , so education system provides you track(IP course) which is kind of provides safety belt to protect against any potential dip in Results due to different learning challanges in secondary years.
IP is here to stay & will continue to grow. Admission to it has to be more balanced. -
DadOfGirl:
This cohort must be asked to learn 2 contrasting subject, because they are ultimately going to take PCME or BCME (A -level), though they are not aware till Sec-3. It will not be bad idea to decide at sec-2 end( Like o levels) what will their subject combination at A -level & built 2 contrasting sbject in sec3 & 4 One of which will be used as contrasting subject requirement.
I don't know enough to comment on how students are selected at various stages. As a mother, I just try to help my kids optimise based on their performance and what the school permits. I would strongly resist having kids as young as 14yo select their A level subjects - many haven't yet figured out what they are good at or what areas they want to focus on. You may be right that many of the high achievers will take the combinations you name, although I would guess that a reasonable no. will not, but they are really too young to decide yet.
I don't know which IP schools you are referring to, but at least for my daughter's, selection of subjects for Yr 3 is pretty much like subject selection in other sec schools. They have to take 2 languages, 2 Maths and social studies, and for the remaining 4 subjects, they must select at least 1 science and 1 humanities, leaving 2 more discretionary slots. That already builds in at least 3 science and 2 non-science subjects seems to give sufficient breadth and contrast.
I do agree that the trend is that stronger students tend to do sciences, but it is something that's not new. It was even worse 30+ yrs ago when I was in school. That was when the humanities programme (under a different name) was begun to attract those who had been studying science to switch to arts. 30 yrs on, it doesn't really seem to have made much of an impact, sad to say. -
slmkhoo:
O - level cohort is also 14 years old when they have to make decisions whether to take Science or Arts stream( 2 science in 8 subjects or 2 humanities subjects ) Would it not be unfair advantage to IP students to give them 2 more years to decide?DadOfGirl:
This cohort must be asked to learn 2 contrasting subject, because they are ultimately going to take PCME or BCME (A -level), though they are not aware till Sec-3. It will not be bad idea to decide at sec-2 end( Like o levels) what will their subject combination at A -level & built 2 contrasting sbject in sec3 & 4 One of which will be used as contrasting subject requirement.
I don't know enough to comment on how students are selected at various stages. As a mother, I just try to help my kids optimise based on their performance and what the school permits. I would strongly resist having kids as young as 14yo select their A level subjects - many haven't yet figured out what they are good at or what areas they want to focus on. You may be right that many of the high achievers will take the combinations you name, although I would guess that a reasonable no. will not, but they are really too young to decide yet.
I don't know which IP schools you are referring to, but at least for my daughter's, selection of subjects for Yr 3 is pretty much like subject selection in other sec schools. They have to take 2 languages, 2 Maths and social studies, and for the remaining 4 subjects, they must select at least 1 science and 1 humanities, leaving 2 more discretionary slots. That already builds in at least 3 science and 2 non-science subjects seems to give sufficient breadth and contrast.
I do agree that the trend is that stronger students tend to do sciences, but it is something that's not new. It was even worse 30+ yrs ago when I was in school. That was when the humanities programme (under a different name) was begun to attract those who had been studying science to switch to arts. 30 yrs on, it doesn't really seem to have made much of an impact, sad to say.
IP subject selection at sec 3 is more of internal , they study 9 subjects for 2 years & decide which 4 to take at sec 5.There is less pressure to do well in the subjects you are not likely to include in Final 4. That's why 2 humanities subject should be mandatory at Sec 3 & 4 in IP course
Stornger students are one who made bold choice of exploring different route for their own self , if they have found one. Sadly what we are doing is Creating 'Maths/Science' experts at PSLE & providing them a Course (IP)which leads to PCME & BCME to become engineers & Doctors. -
DadOfGirl:
Actually, I think if you get A* in MT and EL, and A in Maths & Science, you will probably hit 260, if not, the high 250s. But if you get A* in maths & science, but A in MT and EL, you may not even hit 250s.
What are criteria to get in IP ? T-score above 260. How do you get T-score above 260? By contribution of Maths & science to fullest & do well in English & MT. Not other way around. If you have A* in English & MT would it get you T score of 260.. Nope. If you have A* in MAths & Science , would you get 260 .. most likely. Std deviation in MAths & science make it possible.
This cohort must be asked to learn 2 contrasting subject, because they are ultimately going to take PCME or BCME (A -level), though they are not aware till Sec-3. It will not be bad idea to decide at sec-2 end( Like o levels) what will their subject combination at A -level & built 2 contrasting sbject in sec3 & 4 One of which will be used as contrasting subject requirement.
I kind of get feeling that educators realize need to develop Maths/Science students holistically which has promted need to develop IP course. You are good academically , society needs you , so education system provides you track(IP course) which is kind of provides safety belt to protect against any potential dip in Results due to different learning challanges in secondary years.
IP is here to stay & will continue to grow. Admission to it has to be more balanced.
In either case, 250+ is probably only possible IF you have high As in the other 2 subjects.
I've always thought that the distinguishing factor for PSLE was how good you were in languages, not M&S. -
lexis:
With MAths papers of 2007 & 2009(extermely difficult) , std deviation was high. Past 4 years has easy papers , then what u said is true.
Actually, I think if you get A* in MT and EL, and A in Maths & Science, you will probably hit 260, if not, the high 250s. But if you get A* in maths & science, but A in MT and EL, you may not even hit 250s.DadOfGirl:
What are criteria to get in IP ? T-score above 260. How do you get T-score above 260? By contribution of Maths & science to fullest & do well in English & MT. Not other way around. If you have A* in English & MT would it get you T score of 260.. Nope. If you have A* in MAths & Science , would you get 260 .. most likely. Std deviation in MAths & science make it possible.
This cohort must be asked to learn 2 contrasting subject, because they are ultimately going to take PCME or BCME (A -level), though they are not aware till Sec-3. It will not be bad idea to decide at sec-2 end( Like o levels) what will their subject combination at A -level & built 2 contrasting sbject in sec3 & 4 One of which will be used as contrasting subject requirement.
I kind of get feeling that educators realize need to develop Maths/Science students holistically which has promted need to develop IP course. You are good academically , society needs you , so education system provides you track(IP course) which is kind of provides safety belt to protect against any potential dip in Results due to different learning challanges in secondary years.
IP is here to stay & will continue to grow. Admission to it has to be more balanced.
In either case, 250+ is probably only possible IF you have high As in the other 2 subjects.
I've always thought that the distinguishing factor for PSLE was how good you were in languages, not M&S.
Being good in English , doesn't mean you will do well in MT. MT in singapore context poses very big challange & there would be little corelation of in being Language proficient & MT A*. -
DadOfGirl:
With MAths papers of 2007 & 2009(extermely difficult) , std deviation was high. Past 4 years has easy papers , then what u said is true.
Actually, I think if you get A* in MT and EL, and A in Maths & Science, you will probably hit 260, if not, the high 250s. But if you get A* in maths & science, but A in MT and EL, you may not even hit 250s.lexis:
[quote=\"DadOfGirl\"]
What are criteria to get in IP ? T-score above 260. How do you get T-score above 260? By contribution of Maths & science to fullest & do well in English & MT. Not other way around. If you have A* in English & MT would it get you T score of 260.. Nope. If you have A* in MAths & Science , would you get 260 .. most likely. Std deviation in MAths & science make it possible.
This cohort must be asked to learn 2 contrasting subject, because they are ultimately going to take PCME or BCME (A -level), though they are not aware till Sec-3. It will not be bad idea to decide at sec-2 end( Like o levels) what will their subject combination at A -level & built 2 contrasting sbject in sec3 & 4 One of which will be used as contrasting subject requirement.
I kind of get feeling that educators realize need to develop Maths/Science students holistically which has promted need to develop IP course. You are good academically , society needs you , so education system provides you track(IP course) which is kind of provides safety belt to protect against any potential dip in Results due to different learning challanges in secondary years.
IP is here to stay & will continue to grow. Admission to it has to be more balanced.
In either case, 250+ is probably only possible IF you have high As in the other 2 subjects.
I've always thought that the distinguishing factor for PSLE was how good you were in languages, not M&S.
Being good in English , doesn't mean you will do well in MT. MT in singapore context poses very big challange & there would be little corelation of in being Language proficient & MT A*.[/quote]how about A* in EL, M&S and A in MT? What's the most probable T-Score? -
DadOfGirl:
O - level cohort is also 14 years old when they have to make decisions whether to take Science or Arts stream( 2 science in 8 subjects or 2 humanities subjects ) Would it not be unfair advantage to IP students to give them 2 more years to decide?
My daughter also had to choose her combination at the end of Yr2, with basically the same considerations as all other sec 2 kids - her subject choice then would determine her Yr5 subject options. I don't see that she had 2 more years to decide.
IP subject selection at sec 3 is more of internal , they study 9 subjects for 2 years & decide which 4 to take at sec 5.There is less pressure to do well in the subjects you are not likely to include in Final 4. That's why 2 humanities subject should be mandatory at Sec 3 & 4 in IP course
In my daughter's school, all students do at least social studies and another humanities, so that's a minimum of 2 already.
Stornger students are one who made bold choice of exploring different route for their own self , if they have found one. Sadly what we are doing is Creating 'Maths/Science' experts at PSLE & providing them a Course (IP)which leads to PCME & BCME to become engineers & Doctors.
Yr 5 subject choices are made by the individuals and their parents. I don't see that being in an IP school naturally leads to those 2 combinations. Depending on their Yr 3 combinations, there are students who do other combinations too. And students who do those combinations do not necessarily go to those professions; they can choose to be 'bold' at Yr 5 or later. My daughter is in a class where there are some girls who struggle with Maths and science, so they would certainly dispute the claim that they are 'experts'!
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